Building Unbreakable Brands

Meghan Lynch (00:00):
Succession is one of the most defining moments in a family business, but it's also one of the most misunderstood. Too often it's treated like a single event rather than what it really is. A long, very human process filled with questions, discovery, and growth for everyone involved. My guest today helps rising generation leaders navigate transition with authenticity, confidence, and clarity. We talk about how to move from pressure to purpose and succession, how to balance gratitude for what came before with the courage to lead differently and why the real gift of a transition isn't always the opportunity itself. It can be the clarity that comes with having a roadmap. And of course, Henry joins us as another voice of the next generation with questions about leadership, confidence and some remarkable inventions. All this and more coming up on this episode of Building Unbreakable Brands. Welcome to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast where we talk to business leaders with a generational mindset. I'm Megan Lynch. I'm an advisor to family businesses and CEO of six point strategy, which helps generational brands honor their past while evolving for the future. My guest today is Andrea Carpenter. She's the president of the Transition strategists and host of the podcast, your next gen friend, where she helps rising generation leaders in family businesses navigate succession with authenticity and purpose. Welcome, Andrea. So glad to have you on the show.

Andrea Carpenter (01:40):
Yeah, glad to be here. Thanks for having me.

Meghan Lynch (01:43):
I was hoping that we could talk a little bit about your personal experience with transition, which I know transition and succession has been part of your life and relationships and work and family, so could you just give us a little bit of overview of what that's looked like for you personally?

Andrea Carpenter (02:03):
I grew up with parents. My dad was an entrepreneur and I watched him build and grow. The thing about a technology business is it's not as tactile as some businesses. So some of the things I got to do when I was a kid to get exposure to the business was labeling things in the break room and helping sort papers. But we were just always aware that dad had a business and what does that mean? What do you do? And a lot of that stuff that we talk about in our world. And I think watching a parent do this. And then ultimately my dad did exit his business. He decided that he was going to sell around when I was a freshman in college. So for him, the timeline didn't really make sense to continue growing the business. The timing made sense to make an exit.

(02:53):
I think in the end, there probably would've been some of us that maybe had a place in that business, but for my parents it was a hundred percent the right choice. And so watching my dad go through this, the evolution now of, okay, we don't have an operating business, but we do have a family investment fund, basically an operating family investment fund. And how did my dad make invitations to all of his three children eventually all of their spouses. Very fascinating. Also, my dad's kind of exit from, he was the founder of this company. He was the person doing it and kind of his move into no longer doing that. And what I saw him go through on that personal journey just taught me a lot. And what I appreciate my dad is he's always been big on who are the people you need to put yourself around?

(03:43):
What type of things do you want to learn? And so when he got involved in Tiger 21, which is an investing group, he invited me to join in some of the next gen conversations. And I think the interesting thing is how different every next gen experiences, what their parents share, when their parents share it, how much information they know, is it still an operating business or is it not just really so different? But there's a lot of commonalities between next gens, which is really just you need to know what your voice is. You have this desire to figure out who you are as a person. You recognize oftentimes the privilege that comes with a family business or an operating something at this capacity or some level of wealth. You recognize that privilege but also still want to work really hard and still want to make a name for yourself and figure out how do you carry on family legacy but also still be true to yourself as a person.

(04:41):
And so I started exploring ways that I could give back to this community of NextGen. And long story short, I met my now business partner, Elizabeth Ledou. She spent the last 25, 30 years working with families, navigating how do you strengthen the family unit and keep the family unit together and also in operating business that is potentially operated by a family as they get ready to transition to the next generation. So I came in under the, well, hey, maybe there's some more work and support we can do for successors in this world. And ultimately led an invitation from her to join the firm as her successor and a potential owner inside the business, which I have officially started earlier this year. So we're on our own five to seven year transition of leadership of that particular entity. So I'm learning a lot. Obviously it's a personal kind of thing now being a successor and next gen in a few places, but also helping in serving other families and other successors who are also navigating changes and transitions. So on a high level, that's who I am and why I am so passionate about this topic.

Meghan Lynch (05:55):
Yeah, I think it's so fun to have that opportunity to really practice what you preach. I mean, you've already had kind of a taste of that next gen piece, but then to also be coaching people on transition at the same time as you're actually living it, I think just makes everything that much more resonant. And I'm curious whether have you had a chance to almost use yourself as a Guinea pig for any content frameworks, anything that you've been working on or building out for transition strategists?

Andrea Carpenter (06:31):
Yeah, we have, and Elizabeth thankfully has been because I don't know, sometimes when you come in as a successor, you're like, we have to do this the right way. You're like, but I don't know the way,

(06:41):
What is the way you can feel if something's right or wrong? She was very gracious in taking us through all of the process, some steps which probably she didn't need to revisit, but things like what are both of our objectives around what we need and what we're trying to do? And when you think about that and how that ultimately we have what we call the transition compass and the big six questions and building transition timelines, all of these detailed things. At the end of the day, I firmly believe it's not just for the owner. It's a co-creation process of the current generation and the next generation designing and answering these questions together that really makes the roadmap for the future, which oftentimes involves succession and transfer of equity and transfer of leadership roles and all of these other things. So to be able to experience what that felt like as a successor really solidified for me that if you're an owner listening to this, you don't do this process for yourself.

(07:47):
Certainly there's lots of huge benefits for yourself and the family and keeping the business strong and all of those other things, but really you're doing it for your rising generation. And so for Elizabeth and I to test the frameworks on 'em ourselves, let me experience some of those frameworks. And also there's a new framework that we've been working on developing. We call it The Metamorphosis, and really that was just based on what are the changes that I'm going through as a successor, as I get ready to become the owner, and also for Elizabeth as the owner, as she's getting ready to move out. And a lot of those were very, very based on our own personal experiences as well.

Meghan Lynch (08:27):
That's really cool. Has there been one or two changes that you've seen in yourself that feel like most top of mind or most impactful that you've been through?

Andrea Carpenter (08:39):
More confidence

(08:42):
I think is a big piece. I always knew I was a leader. I always knew there's just some things you can feel or a label or a name tag that you can wear. So thankfully, I've always had one. I'm a leader. I love to come up with new ideas. I'm good at sort of bringing the team together. There's been some reframing on a couple of them, which helped me solidify those thoughts into an even more pointed piece. So for example, we have an assessment that we use called the imap, which looks at the motivated role of each person. And when I took the imap and Elizabeth and I are going through this, she goes, Hey, look, it looks like you're 60% refiner maximizer, which are kind of on the back end. And when we talked through what that meant and kind of what that made me as a person, I was like, oh, and disclaimer, personality assessments are great for like, Hey, this is what the data says about you.

(09:41):
Does this feel true? And for me, it felt very true. I was like, okay, yes, I want to take this data and start to use it as truth for myself. It helped me reframe like, okay, so if I'm actually really strong in X, Y, Z specific areas, I don't actually need to be back to watching my dad build a business before. I don't need to be a leader in the same way I saw my dad be a leader or start a business. I can do things a little bit different because that's very authentic to me. And I think that just increased and ramped up my confidence as a leader and confidence also in what is the path forward? What exactly is our timeline going to be? What is all that going to look like? Because for me to say, yes, I'm willing to come into your ecosystem and help build this business with you, I really needed a clear idea on what the future was going to look like. And so now I have more confidence also in the path and direction that we're moving.

Meghan Lynch (10:39):
Yeah, I feel like almost every next gen has to go through that moment of seeing examples of leadership that they have admired in the past or have been affected by in the past and have that moment of realization of, oh, right, I can still admire them, but not have to be them. Did you and Elizabeth have that moment, or had you been talking about it so much that you didn't have some of those moments of trying to mimic what she's doing or that kind of thing?

Andrea Carpenter (11:13):
I certainly still even to this day have moments where I'm like, well, it's always been done that way, so I should probably do it that way. I sit somewhere on the fence. I think honoring what's been done and the way things have been done, I feel like I have a duty and an obligation to our team to at least understand the historical context around why things have been done the way that they've been done. But I also know that the team really respects and appreciates the new perspective that I'm able to bring. And so it's also doing them a service if I see something and I feel really strong about it to go ahead and usher and bring in those new ideas. So it's an interesting fine line. I would say often around when I'm going to push certain things and when I'm going to sit back and listen, but that also fits my personality type of wanting to be really observant and listen first to truly understand a situation.

Meghan Lynch (12:10):
Yeah, I love the piece of understanding the why things happen before you start driving for change because it's so easy to either solve the wrong problem or to come in and try to influence something that isn't right. There's a story that I heard somewhere and I repeat to my team and clients about this family that has a ham. They do a ham every year for a holiday, and they pass down the recipe from generation to generation where they cut off the top of the ham and then put it in the oven, and finally one of the kids is like, why are we cutting off the top of the ham? Well, I don't know. That's the way my mom taught me, and that's the way her dad taught her, and that's how it's always been. So they kept asking the generation and the generation and finally they realized that, oh, way back when the oven was too small and they bought a ham that was too big. And so I think some of those things, it's like that it's always been done this way and we've outgrown the reason why it's not necessary anymore, but sometimes it's always been done this way and you find some really important reason why. And so it's important to just keep asking those questions. But we often refer to Are we cutting the top off the ham here?

Andrea Carpenter (13:33):
I like that. And I think it's a nice segue into when we think about helping business owners or the current generation start to think about what's next and their transition or sometimes to even start thinking about succession and transition, it feels really big and it feels really heavy because you like your team, you like what you're doing, you're going to start to step into this and maybe the family is going to start to, stuff's going to come up or hard conversations are going to happen. So it's easy to not want to talk about those. And that's why when we start working with people, it's really about what do you want for yourself, your spouse or your partner, your business, your employees, your family, extended family, and we want to write down the objectives that you actually have in life. Because if there's an objective to make sure that you're spending time with your grandkids or you can take each grandkid on a trip or whatever is the thing you really want to do with your life, sometimes it gets to a point where it's like, oh yeah, maybe staying in the business is not the right thing to do.

(14:43):
And it goes, it's not just for the owner either. We do it with every single member of the family. What are their objectives? Because sometimes there are leadership aspirations or growth that a next gen or a member of the family will have. And sometimes people just don't talk about those things that are important to them. So if part of the why is we want to keep the family together, we want to make sure that everyone in the family feels fulfilled and happy, then we need to start with why does everyone want this to work out and what is the outcome that is going to make it a huge win for them? And so that's where we will start talking with families a lot of time around that because you don't need to. It's easy to say, oh, we got approached by private equity, maybe we should sell the business.

(15:35):
It's a pretty good offer. All the kids would walk away with a couple million dollars, wouldn't they be so happy with that? It could be ignoring the fact that some of the kids have worked and their career and their whole life has been in the business and they had this goal and this thing that they were going to go there. And actually by selling the business or doing this thing, if the goal is to have everyone around the Thanksgiving table next year and that makes a relationship break or someone leave because it doesn't align with what they wanted, that you could actually be causing some of those most important things to fall out and not happen. So always kind of starting with those objectives and really understanding why you're doing it versus coming in with a solution. Oh, I should definitely gift to my kids. We should definitely sell to private equity. We should keep the real estate, but get rid of the operating business or vice versa. Sometimes it's easy to come in with that solution in mind. So starting a little bit broader is a big important piece.

Meghan Lynch (16:41):
I love really opening up that conversation not only to the leader in the operating business, but also the entire family including the next gens because to your point, and I think the example of being approached by private, and I feel like there's so much of that right happening right now of just people getting unsolicited offers that all of a sudden may go, oh, maybe we'll sell. Okay, which can then create that rash decision piece, the opening it up to have some of those conversations and not assuming that you know what the objectives of the other people are. And so much of that communication is an opportunity for everybody to learn a little bit more about each other and to support each other, which for most families is what they want anyway, is just really supporting everyone and what they're trying to achieve. But if you don't know, if you don't ask, to your point, that's great knowing that a lot of these transitions are not just about money or real estate or operating structures, but it really is about people. I know you talk about that a lot. When you think about your transition with Elizabeth, is there one relationship either that was personal or professional, that was one of the most important for you to pay attention to in this generational handoff or just a moment where the people aspect of transition became really important to you or to the organization?

Andrea Carpenter (18:19):
Great question. I feel like I have a couple angles. Where I'm coming from here first is within the business itself as someone coming in as an outsider. So our transition's a little different from many core family businesses in that we're not related or it wasn't just like, Hey, it's going to happen someday. I was invited in. And so I felt this sense of stewardship, but also I think about our team, I think about our employees and I think about our clients. If the transition between us affected our ability to deliver strong work and support our clients through it, that was a non-starter for me and for Elizabeth too that would make it not such a good fit. And sometimes we talk about this concept of the family business community or the business community. So in that case, I kind of just answered the question on that side of the bucket.

(19:15):
There's another side of the bucket, which is the family community. And when you are in a family business, you essentially have these two communities, and sometimes they do have overlap, but sometimes it's distinct. So I also have some non-negotiables. I have a 14 month old, I want to make sure I'm there for breakfast in the morning and I can spend time in the evening and my sisters live nearby, and so to make sure that we have time to get together. And so it was a non-negotiable for me to step into a role or a position where I was going to have to be on the road all the time, or I wasn't going to be able to if I had to take meetings super early and things like that. So I was able to also put some of my own parameters in around my family community and what I wanted and how I wanted to show up there to make sure that the family business side of the transaction wasn't affecting my family side.

(20:13):
In family businesses, this is a little bit more intermingled than in the case of Elizabeth and myself, we always joke that it's kind of nice every once in a while if we get frustrated with each other, if we're like, ah, we just need to walk away, we can truly walk away because at night we go home and we have our families and we have those things and we can come back and pick it up the next day when they are your family, sometimes you're going home to the same people. And so what hats are we actually wearing? What does that look like? Are we actually moving towards the important goals and things that we have for each of these different areas and things that we said were important?

Meghan Lynch (20:54):
Do you find when you're working with leaders that these kinds of non-negotiables around relationships are top of mind for them? Or is it something that this is the first time that they're thinking about it when they start to put things in those buckets? I love the example that you gave of spending time with certain people in your family versus the business, and I just wasn't sure if everybody that you work with has a similar amount of intention and awareness around that.

Andrea Carpenter (21:27):
Sometimes people have it. I think the way that we ask a question, it's almost like, well, who do you want to take care of or who are we needing to take care of here? And so by asking that question, it's like, oh, that's actually affected by this. Maybe they didn't put them in the same buckets before. So that's one piece. Sometimes it's generational. Certain generations I find it's a little, not stereotyping, but there are certain generations that tend to have different value sets. Each person also tends to have their own sets of values. So I think there's some people that weigh certain types of things different than others. I don't think that someone who like me has something like, well, I want to make sure I spend time with my daughter and things like that. That doesn't make that objective of mine that I did put as a deal breaker any less important than say if someone had an objective around financial security and that they need financial security in their future life to make sure that they're stable because maybe that is for them a way the financial security helps them emotionally regulate themselves and actually show up better for their family and feel like a better person.

(22:44):
So it's really important that we don't project any of our own kind of objectives or things that are important on others. And even within the family, when we facilitate an activity where they're sharing, it's like it doesn't really matter what you think about that person's objective because they're telling you it's an objective for their life, and if they put it on there, it must be important to them for a reason. So we need to understand why it is important to them and what truly is a deal breaker or not something that would make them completely walk away from a transaction if it happened a certain way. Because a lot of times we're looking at some of those big deal breakers when we start to get a little bit more into that, okay, well how should we actually structure this deal or what should that actually look like?

Meghan Lynch (23:31):
And when you're working with families in that way to create that safe space, is it just really by encouraging curiosity or is there anything else that you do to try to create that openness where people can hear somebody's goal or objective that might be very different from their own and still be open to it and truly hear it?

Andrea Carpenter (23:55):
A mixture of both. And I will say I'm still a guided training. Most of our transition guides have years experience as leadership coaches and other things. So I'm coming in mostly on a part of my training and my growth as a successor inside of our business is to learn and shadow and do more with clients. But what I've seen the guides do when they do this work with families is it's really you have to make sure that every single person has an opportunity and a voice at the table and to facilitate discussions when and where it's important. In some cases it's, Hey, let's just list them as facts and make sure that we're all on the same page as to what the objectives are here and another families. Whoa, we really need to unpack some of these. Let's talk about how some of these objectives are potentially in opposition of each other and where people set.

(24:55):
So for example, Elizabeth and I had a couple of objectives that were in opposition to each other. She had down that she wanted to remain majority owner until she was officially transacting out and no longer working in an operating role at all in the business. And I had that I'd like to be an equal partner or majority owner sooner if I was going to step into the business. And so that led to a very, very good and very rich discussion around what was important to each of us as we thought about the business in the future and how that made me feel valued as a partner and how that made her feel secure being within a few years of retirement for her, the financial security of maintaining control of the company, it made it a deal breaker for her. And it wasn't a deal breaker for me, but it was still important that we talked that out. So I didn't come in with any resentment or things like that. So I would say it could be either depending on the situation, depending on what objectives are down, depending on how many people are in the room that we need to discuss with.

Meghan Lynch (26:04):
You're listening to building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. Today I'm speaking with Andrea Carpenter as a successor herself who bought into an established business rather than starting from scratch. Andrea brings both lived experience and proven frameworks to the complex dynamics of family business transitions. We're just talking a bit about some of the deal breakers and creating space to have those go on the table. When you're talking about transition as you are making space to hear that and also trying really craft your own voice and vision for the future of the business, how have you navigated that piece of having your own voice heard in those conversations while also I know when you walk into a business that you haven't built, there is a lot of respect and gratitude for the opportunity. So how do you navigate that respect and honor with really putting forward your own voice and vision?

Andrea Carpenter (27:13):
Great question. I got hives thinking about it because some days it feels really easy, and other days I'm like, I feel like I'm making this up every single day as I go through. I think it has to feel authentic to you as a leader because the second you are trying to be someone else or to do something that's not you, your capacity to truly move the needle and take the business into the next generation is nothing. And so that can be tricky if you have an owner or a mentor inside the business who is trying to get you to do everything exactly the same way that things have always been done. And so it is a tricky balance for me. I persuade with facts and figures and data when I am looking to make changes and things, I'll gather outside information or outside experiences or things I've done in the past that lived experience of, hey, this was the outcome that we had.

(28:20):
Here's the reason as I start to make the case as to why we might want to consider this. And then also the data. So we were looking at, hey, do we need to make some changes and who's our next hire and it need, should it be the same hire we've always made for that role or do we need to change the job description? I'm like, let's actually go into all of the hours spent by that person and see if it truly does reflect the job description. And so that's a place for me. I'm a little bit more of a data analytical person where I can come in and do that. But what I learned in my time as a designer, graphic designer, you can always prototype things in really small ways to test things out. And so it doesn't have to be big sweeping changes all at once to be able to come in and say, okay, I'm kind of thinking that maybe we should try this new pricing structure.

(29:13):
What do you think? If we just tried it out on a couple of sales calls just to see how it's landing with people at the end of the day, the opportunity cost of that is not huge. It gave me space to get more confident in the things that I was doing to put my own reps in because for me, there's a big piece of I need to experience it to be able to actually know how to manipulate it, how to change it. And so yeah, that's some of what I've done as a leader some days easier than others. There certainly there's amount of effort and energy that it takes to show up at that level. And also just an empathy and appreciation that I feel from Elizabeth quite often around, you're still learning, it's okay if we make mistakes. We know what's a training kind of playground for certain types of things.

(30:06):
And when it's a non-negotiable situation. So for example, Elizabeth lets me play a lot and now I've kind of taken over these areas, so I let myself play a lot now, but at the beginning it was, let's just play in the marketing and business development area. And you can start to tweak there because at the end of the day, that's fine. What we don't change, what we don't touch is client delivery because we know that's been working well. People have been sold a certain type of thing, so we want to make sure that's good. And then as we learn more, and as I understand more the team, slowly we morph things, but we morph a lot more slowly in the operational bucket and client delivery bucket than we do in say the marketing and business development bucket.

Meghan Lynch (30:48):
So it sounds like having some guardrails and maybe some sandbox areas where you can kind of test things out and push some boundaries or beta test a few things, helps you both gain confidence but also to learn like, Ooh, what is the opportunity for change here? What is the return? Were my assumptions? Correct? All of those types of things and start to gather information that then allows you to maybe propose bigger changes or more sweeping changes down the road once you have a little bit more,

Andrea Carpenter (31:22):
Which I think is good. And now I'm officially two years in, and so we are at a more sweeping changes point, but I feel I establish trust and credibility also with Elizabeth on certain things that decisions I made did work out, but we also have to have a culture of being willing to try things. And for me as a next gen leader to get reps and be like, oh, maybe that didn't quite work out the way that I thought. There's a lot of learning, which in the end will accelerate things even more. I have to have that resilience and that ability to impact things to be a true next generation leader in our business.

Meghan Lynch (32:04):
So speaking of that, when you see rising gens who are really able to fully thrive and live into their potential and kind of walk that balance between honoring the past and having their own vision and voice heard, what do you see as the most important criteria that have to be in place to allow them to do that?

Andrea Carpenter (32:28):
Oh, that's a really great question. And it so depends on the person and the personalities of everyone. What's going to work for me is not necessarily going to work for another rising gen, and that's just based on my personality and how I like data and how I communicate with the team. I tend to be more, our IMAP assessment, which I mentioned earlier, has four impact styles. I'm pretty heavy on the analyst side, which is that data driven component. People who are directors, they just want to tell you, they assume you have the facts, let's just go, let's just do this thing. The approach that that person is going to need versus the approach that I need is going to be very different. And so I guess I'll meta that a little bit, which is in a situation where you have a couple leaders or one leader in one rising gen to know how each person impacts or communicates what their strengths are and what potentially their weaknesses are, and to facilitate conversations around those things so that you can truly say, Hey, this is really a strength of mine, or this is really a passion of mine, or this is something that I really want to do.

(33:39):
And for the other person to say, okay, yeah, I think that's great. I'm ready to start stepping out of that role. Here's the timeline of when I think that's going to happen. I think that really lets that rising gen accelerate on that path of growth and development because it's a path that's been tailor made for them as a person.

Meghan Lynch (34:02):
Yeah, I love that. I think when a lot of people are thinking about succession, and we touched a little bit on this before that the focus both from the leaders and the next gen and the advisors are all about tax structures and legal structures and financial structures, kind of like how this is going to happen. But knowing that you guys are really taking a much more holistic person centered approach, can you pinpoint what exactly sets your approach or methodology apart from a traditional succession advisor?

Andrea Carpenter (34:40):
Yeah, and we're big on any company who's successfully transitioning is going to need a team of advisors. We do not believe that one person could transition a business well. So knowing six point on the branding and how do we talk about ourselves, that's something we could help with on a high level, but that wouldn't be our expertise and we're not drafting your legal documents and your CPA is going to know about your tax pieces. And so where we really plug in is that kind of holistic view on what are the things that are important to each person? How do we take care of the family and which option is really going to work best for us? So our transition roadmap developer is what Elizabeth has built. There's a couple pieces of that. The first is the transition compass. That's what we call, there's six questions in there, six points on the compass, why we talked a lot about the objectives matrix and why do I want to transition?

(35:39):
What are everyone's objectives? What assets do you actually have? And understanding that because sometimes it's more complicated than just, oh yeah, we have an operating business. You can break it up into divisions of the business or real estate holdings or all these other things. You can start to get a little more granular into what exactly are the things that might be transitioned someday and do I want to transition them or not? Is equally an important question in that, who do I want to take care of and who are potential successors? What's their leadership to trajectory and growth and what does that timeline start to look like for them? And when that one's really about, we call them the many wins, a lot of times it feels like transition is an event and it's really not. It's a journey and all these other steps along the way.

(36:28):
And so when you think of that, when you might think about role transitions as separate from strategic decision making, transitions as separate from equity transitions, because if you're truly going to do internal succession to an employee or a family member or a management team, whatever that looks like, there are roles that the owner is doing that'll have to get transitioned theoretically, probably before equity is actually transitioned because a business is a lot more valuable if the owner is not actually in the day-to-day operations. And then when we've answered those four Ws, then we can get into how much money do I need to live the rest of my life and is the business worth enough or are the payouts from the business going to be enough for me to live the lifestyle that I want? And then we get to the how. So on a high level, we can help with gifting strategies versus buying strategies.

(37:22):
How do you keep it equitable? How do you keep it fair if some people are working in the business and some are not, that also might lead into family governance and family alliance and other structures around supporting the family through that. And so that's the transition compass. And then it moves into the rest of the roadmap, which is basically the timeline and what are all the points along the way where all of those things that we've now talked about are going to happen. And again, for the successor, that's super great. Like, okay, for me personally, I need to know all the things around the finances by the beginning of 2028, about when Elizabeth is going to step out of that role. So what are all the things I would need to learn to actually be able to do that in that area by that point? And so that's kind of holistically when we think about supporting people to build their initial roadmaps where we can really help, it's super rooted in who are the people, what's important to them, how do we take care of them? And a lot of transition is just the implementation of it. It's not fast. Even though we would like it to be fast, like, okay, we sorted all this out, let's just make it happen now for most of our clients, it's three to seven years

(38:32):
Where these things are happening over when you think of different equities happening and different rules transferring and all of those things and the emotional journey that each individual person goes on is nothing to be sniffed at and it shouldn't kind of be pressed down. The owner's going through that, oh crap, what am I going to do? And now my dad always jokes like him and my mom are in the same house all the time now. That was a big adjustment from him being at the office and traveling and doing all these other things. So that kind of transition for the owner and also them letting go of something that they've been working in for a long time and how do they kind of steward that to the next generation? And then all those leadership growth and opportunities that the rising gen has as well, and how those ultimately meet at the point is a big piece of where we support through that entire journey.

Meghan Lynch (39:27):
One thing that you said that I just want to put a point on is this idea of multiple wins. Because to me, I hear that and I'm like, yes, that feels very true and real that even though again, we tend to think about transition as this one transactional endpoint, that the reality of it is that it is multiple steps along the way and multiple transitions that we can prepare for. And I think that there's something really freeing about thinking about it as multiple points and not all this, all the weight on this one moment. I think that that's freeing on everybody's side to just be like, oh, we've got time. This is complex and we don't have to do it all at once. And so just the fact that you guys are breaking it down and asking those questions and starting to map some of that out, I'm sure people are just kind of like a little sigh of relief in hearing some of that.

Andrea Carpenter (40:36):
Yeah, it can also feel like overwhelming to know that it is going to happen over such a long period of time. I think the way you framed it is super great that it is good to give everyone time and space, but sometimes after going through all the objectives and talking to the whole family, the right thing is, Hey, we should pursue a sale or we should pursue an esop,

(41:01):
Or whatever that looks like, right? Sometimes that outcome is different and it's totally based on what's important to everyone and their timelines and all of those different pieces. So yeah, it's a super interesting space to look at and to think about how people show up. I think one of my favorite tools is also the many wins because it does break it down into all of those smaller steps that each person can take. And I can't do 280 between now and the end of the year to prepare to eventually take over the business from Elizabeth someday, but I can pick one or two. It's a tool we call the focus action navigator. I can pick one or two of those next steps and work on those things and have conversations about those and make a next step just to really make sure things keep moving. Because a lot of times it's easy to feel that overwhelm or hey, we're not there yet, but if you're going to go that path of, yes, we should do an internal succession, I want to pass it to the family, it's such a gift to be able to really give them the steps, give them space and time for conversations.

(42:15):
And we always say you don't know all the answers to all the questions until the moment you transact. And so it also gives you a lot of space to pivot. Things can change, people can change. Elizabeth and I had a timeline set and then I got pregnant with our first after we had been trying for a couple years, and it was an amazing surprise, and I was also like, can we pump the brakes on this? And so that messed with her timeline, but it was something I needed to do for me, and she knew that that was something we were thinking about based on my objectives matrices. So yeah, I think it's a great gift also to make sure that you give time and space to also pivot and make adjustments as things come up.

Meghan Lynch (42:58):
Yeah, I feel like for most next gens that I speak to, having some kind of roadmap that does outline, how are we going to get from here where we are, which feels maybe really far from succession in a lot of cases to an actual date or time or multiple dates where I'm starting to grow into a role and eventually becoming the successor. At least I hear a lot of next gens almost begging for that. And I've even seen some next gens leave the family business because that's not available to them. They just don't see a path and it doesn't feel concrete to them. So it's like, Hey, I have other opportunities. I'm going to go call me when you're serious, basically. And I think that, yeah, to your point, it's just that roadmap piece is such a gift, that clarity that it provides and the empowerment of, yes, there are a few steps that I can take and do. I think that that's a great framing for it because I think sometimes as the leading generation we can sort of assume that the gift is the opportunity, not necessarily, but sometimes the gift is clarity.

Andrea Carpenter (44:16):
Yeah, yeahs super true. And we outline some of that in the free guide, which I am sure you'll drop a note in the show notes for everyone. Just some of the details around how does it actually help the next generation to do stuff like this? Why should you start at certain points in time? I think it's everything that you exactly said, that clarity of the next generation. Oftentimes we hear that that next generation has a more urgent need or desire to figure out this roadmap stuff. And so what a gift it is to be able to offer that to your family in terms of the clarity that a roadmap provides. It gives people a space to say, yes, I'm in. Yes, I'm out. And then at least we all know and no one's in this space of like, well, maybe it's going to happen someday, but we haven't actually talked about it yet. And so I think that's another thing that makes our process pretty unique, is it invites all those voices to the table to really design and talk about that future together, which is going to just lay the foundation and strengthen and even stronger next and continuing generations beyond inside the business.

Meghan Lynch (45:29):
You're listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. I'm speaking with Andrea Carpenter. Andrea is the president of the transition strategist and host of your next gen friend, where she helps rising generation leaders in family businesses navigate succession with authenticity and purpose. And now my son Henry is here to be another voice of the next Generation with some questions for Andrea.

Henry Lynch (45:58):
Hi, Andrea. I have some questions for you.

Meghan Lynch (46:01):
Alright,

Andrea Carpenter (46:02):
Hit me.

Henry Lynch (46:03):
So what's something you remember doing as a kid that helped you learn how to be a good leader later on in your life?

Andrea Carpenter (46:12):
Ooh, that's a great question. I think a lot of people have a definition of what a leader's supposed to be, but you have to figure out what makes it authentic for you. So I think it's super cool. You are exploring your own business and other things. So I did things like I was really into band when I was in middle school and high school, and I eventually became a section leader and I did marching band and I got to be a leader within the context of a group like that. I also did a program called the Young Entrepreneurs Academy when I was young, which helped me learn how to start a business, and I learned how to be a leader of a team doing things like that. So I think there's a way to be a leader in all the things you do at school and clubs and sports and activities and things like that, which helped me learn a lot about who I am as a leader.

Henry Lynch (47:08):
When you were little, did you ever imagine yourself being the boss of a company or did you want to do something else?

Andrea Carpenter (47:18):
That's a really good question. So my dad also owned his own business, so I got to watch one of my parents being an entrepreneur, and I think I always thought I wanted to do something. A big lesson that I had was I didn't have to do it the same as what my dad did. So it feels like it took me a really long time to figure out exactly what I wanted to do that was unique and special for me. And so that's an important piece of knowing, but I think I always wanted to do some type of business or project when I grew up.

Henry Lynch (47:58):
So what's one piece of leadership advice that you have for me?

Andrea Carpenter (48:05):
Listen more than you talk always, because you can learn a lot about other people and how they're feeling and other ideas when you listen to people really carefully.

Henry Lynch (48:17):
Thanks, Andrea. I have a joke for you.

Andrea Carpenter (48:20):
All right, I'm ready.

Henry Lynch (48:22):
What's the most remarkable invention of the last century?

Andrea Carpenter (48:28):
What?

Henry Lynch (48:29):
The dry erase board.

Andrea Carpenter (48:32):
Oh, got it. Nice joke.

Henry Lynch (48:36):
Thanks so much for being on the show, Andrea. Thanks, Henry. If people want to learn more about your or your company, what's the best way for them to do that?

Andrea Carpenter (48:44):
Yeah, so transition strategist.com/six point is a place where they can grab a special resource that I talked about today, and I am at your NextGen friend on Instagram, and I also hang out on LinkedIn, so I'm looking forward to connecting with people there.

Henry Lynch (49:05):
Great. We'll link to those in the show notes. Thanks again. It was great talking to you. Bye

Meghan Lynch (49:12):
Bye.

(49:15):
Andrea shared so many thoughtful insights today, but one piece that really stuck with me was when she said that succession isn't something that you do for yourself. It's something that you co-create with the next generation. That mindset shift away from control and toward collaboration truly changes everything. It turns succession from this transfer of power into a shared design process, one that honors everyone's needs, timing and goals. If you'd like to learn more about Andrea's work or download her free transition guide, visit transition strategist.com/point or find her on LinkedIn or Instagram at your NextGen friend. We'll link to everything in the show notes. And if this episode gave you something to think about, please share it with someone else and leave us a review. It helps more people discover the podcast. Thank you so much for listening, and we'll see you next time on Building Unbreakable Brands.