Building Unbreakable Brands

0:00:00 - Meghan Lynch
On today's episode, we're going to talk about how you successfully transition from being a kid growing up around a business to being a leader driving the future of the brand. We'll also hear some great lessons about what a smooth succession can look like if you have both time and vision. And, as always, we've got Henry, the voice of the next generation, ready to talk books and tacos with our guests, so let's dive in. Do you think they can learn anything from a kid?

0:00:35 - Henry Lynch
I know things better than you. I'm kind of an expert.

0:00:40 - Meghan Lynch
Welcome to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast where we talk to business leaders with a generational mindset. I'm Meghan Lynch. I'm an advisor to family businesses and founder of Six-Point, a brand strategy agency that helps generational brands honor their past while evolving for the future. Today we'll be talking to Sally, second-generation family business, cookbook agent, improviser, mom and taco lover. Welcome Sally!

0:01:11 - Sally Ekus
Hi Meghan! Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited about this conversation.

0:01:16 - Meghan Lynch
Because we're talking about generational brands. I just wanted to start off by having you just talk a little bit about the legacy that you stepped into, because your mom, Lisa Ekus, she's a real pioneer in culinary media in general and PR and cookbook publishing. So I was wondering if you could just talk a little bit about kind of the history of the Lisa Ekus group, the Ekus group, and how that's evolved.

0:01:43 - Sally Ekus
Yeah, absolutely so growing up. If you had asked me what my mom's job was, I probably would have said something to do with food and books, because there was always something yummy coming from the kitchen and there was a ton of books everywhere. But really what she did was created the category of culinary media and what that looks like today is food network, food blogs, people on TikTok making recipes quickly. But my mom, Lisa, created what at the time was called Lisa Ekus Public Relations and it was a PR agency exclusively focused on culinary professionals. So she was hired to book and execute multi-city book tours for cookbook authors from different publishers. This was now over 40 years ago.

The agency was started almost 42 years ago now and very quickly had a culinary, exclusive culinary focus and Lisa was like the go-to culinary publicist. Publishers would call her and say I've got a new author, here's what the book is about, can you book their tour? And she would coordinate it all. And this was very early days, right as food network was gaining traction and culinary chefs were seen as food stars. She really created a lot of that enthusiasm around it, pretty much around the publishing industry and the publishing space and books, but really in conjunction with other forms of culinary enthusiasm that were happening in the industry around television and radio at the time. And then out of that service, through the public relations firm, evolved a talent or spokesperson representation service that we offered to our clients. So she was sending these authors out on tour and realizing, hey, they don't really know how to hone what their message is and talk about it succinctly in the media. So she co-created the first culinary media training program in the whole country and people like Emeril came through our doors for media training and we talk about Lisa's legacy and stepping into that. There are pictures of the back of my head standing next to Julia Child in our kitchen. So it's like I grew up into the legacy of this food and media business that was around me. So she created a media training program teaching authors how to hone their message and deliver them in the media and then negotiated spokesperson opportunities for these now media trained culinary professionals who are going out in the world and promoting products or creating recipes for products and being spokespeople on behalf of the culinary industry. And then, out of that intersection of working with culinary stars and creating all this buzz around them, she was still working with publishers on their books and the authors were saying, hey, I have this new book idea, you're already in touch with my publisher. I love working with you. Will you agent me? Will you represent me as a literary agent? And that's how the literary agency representation also evolved in the scope of services that we offer to our clients. And so over the course of 35, 40 years, our agency offerings evolved as the culinary landscape and as the publishing landscape evolved, and so I was looking forward to me stepping into this legacy.

I never. It wasn't intended to be a family business. We didn't really talk about do you or your sister want to come work with me? But I grew up collating press kits and licking envelopes and stuffing catalogs, and so I was immersed in the vocabulary and the culture of the agency but never had any pressure to work in it. For a master's in social work, I deferred from grad school, I moved home, I started helping her out and it turned out I'd been informally training for this my whole life. I really loved it and the rest is kind of history.

0:05:47 - Meghan Lynch
That's so awesome and I just love this idea of like you know your head in these images, you know kind of this past and history, kind of the Where's Waldo, Where's Sally.

0:06:02 - Sally Ekus
Totally, totally, and I think there's a lot of pictures of you know really high profile authors and culinary stars like just hanging out at the house or being in the office and you know there's like a little head or a hand here and there and you know actual physical photographs, if people remember this.

0:06:22 - Meghan Lynch
I feel like in when we think of fast change industries, we might think of tech or, you know, now AI, but it's really hard to think of an industry that has evolved as quickly or as just holistically as media, food. I mean, all of the pieces that the Ekus Group touches are just fast change aspects of our world, even if we don't necessarily think about it that way all the time. How did you guys keep a sense of identity with all that rapid change?

0:07:05 - Sally Ekus
Yeah, I mean, kudos to Lisa for just this hyper-focus on food, because we, you know, there's there's many different genres and publishing and publishing itself is in some ways, like, still very archaic. But the food space has evolved so rapidly and Lisa has always almost exclusively represented culinary authors. Maybe it's food writing, food narrative we might I used to call I still kind of call it like culinary, it should might be a little health and wellness special diet, but it's the focus is books that have recipes and storytelling in them, and so, as the industry and the interest in food has ebbed and flowed and evolved in different ways, food is, is the constant, and so her area of expertise has remained consistent and she is just exceptional and has trained me. I'm just so fortunate to be mentored by someone who keeps their finger on, like, watching trends, in a way that is both very fast and really long lead right. So, like she'll notice, she tells the story of noticing.

I think she was in Maine and she noticed an herb being sold on the side of the road and then, like, like at a farm stand, like a house farm stand or something which happens here in New England. For those listening to the others on the side of the road, but mostly, anyway, it's a trust thing. You put in some quarters, you take an herb, you're good to go. And then she started noticing it popping up on restaurant menus. And then she started noticing it being an ingredient listed, you know, on, maybe, product packaging. So there's like this, this evolution of a trend to see when does it come up on restaurant menus versus CPG packaging in the media. And then all of a sudden it's happening in our home kitchen. But people need instruction for whatever that ingredient is, enter a cookbook or enter a food influencer. Now who's going to teach you about that thing?

So you know, I was, I was trained and I grew up around that, that philosophy and that perspective and that intuition, which was amazing. And, additionally, you know when Lisa is working on projects because she has this background publicity, she's very fast paced. You know she replies in an instant and she makes you feel like you're the most important client in the world and you're our only client. And so I was trained as an agent by a publicist which is very unique in terms of my ability to represent and I have a very special perspective, and that I grew up in many of the changes that were happening, and I bring that historical knowledge to my immediate action oriented representation in present day, and so it's a, it's a you know. In many ways it's a learned skill, but it's also like an innate part of my, my DNA.

0:10:13 - Meghan Lynch
Yeah, I can imagine that it would be hard to even pinpoint what exactly it is that you learned or when you learned it. It's just kind of always been something that you've been steeped in over the years and, yeah, that's really interesting, and I can see how it also helped to keep some kind of constant DNA in the business as both the industry evolves and as, as you come in and take on a leadership role. In like track and field, you can be like two of the fastest runners in the world. You know elite Olympic athletes, and in a relay race you can still flub that baton pass. Yes, yeah, Just being fast, just being good, does not mean that you can make that handoff at the right time and make it a clean one, and so I'm like how did you two manage to make that that pass happen?

0:11:13 - Sally Ekus
I so, from almost day one and this is again just like a nod to Lisa's you know her, her, her personality, like in her desire to mentor, whether it was me or other colleagues, like once, we knew I wanted to work in this business and between us, you know, individually and behind the scenes, we knew that this was going to be the succession plan. It was. You are shadowing me in everything I do. I was in every meeting, I was on every email, I was on all initial, you know calls. I was at first, I was just there quietly taking notes and listening, and then I was slowly encouraged to, you know, step in, add my two cents and the relationship and this the scene that was set with clients, with editors, with publishers, right from the beginning of the meeting. And so Lisa, in the get go, was Sally's a part of this and she's got a seat at the table. And so, you know, lisa pulled the chair out for me and I sat down and scooted myself in and it was that from there on out.

That being said, you know there were some clients at that time that I think were like, who the hell is this? You know, you're your daughter. You're just inviting her to do this thing, what's going like, where's where this girl come from? Right, and that's okay, you know that's to be expected from certain long term relationships that maybe we're not ready to think about succession, that far out right, like this was 15 years ago now that we started setting that table and not saying Sally's going to be like the head of this table immediately, but just really setting the stage for that and so just early communication between us and then lots of communication between us and then to clients, really strategically, for many, many years before it was Sally's now taking the helm a little bit more and then Sally's now leading this and then getting ready for Lisa to retire.

Once it was announced that Lisa was retiring, our clients and our contacts were like congratulations, right. Of course you know it wasn't like wait, what this is coming out of nowhere. You know everyone felt I think and you know of course certain clients or old clients can correct me if I'm wrong and they're listening to this like I think it was not surprising and in fact really appropriate and celebrated that it was time to pass the baton, because you know she hyper mentored me and trained me and also really allowed me to put my own, my own imprint on my style of leadership and client management and development and agency cultivation. Well before that baton was like formally passed.

0:14:01 - Meghan Lynch
I think that one of the things that you're saying that I think is really, really important for both next generation leaders to understand and leading generation leaders to understand is that that moment of passing the baton is one that always feels fraught, it feels scary, it feels high risk, but it sounds like one of the ways that you guys really diffuse that risk was just talking about it for a long time until it was normalized, as opposed to trying to kind of keep it secret or being scared of it so that it felt like it was bigger than what it was, so that it just became normal.

0:14:48 - Sally Ekus
For our business and what felt right for our clients and our business between us, like it was. The actual path of the baton was like very short and very logistic. You know it's like the last step right. Everything else that came before it was laying the groundwork and I will say this too one of the things that set us up for success, even in the most difficult of moments which, of course, there are in this process was first Lisa and then Lisa and my individual prioritization of leadership and our own edification around like how to be successful agency leaders and how to go through the succession process, and finding like professionals to guide you in those moments and around those moments is really important, you know. I mean we we leaned on resources around learning how to learning how to have difficult conversations, learning how to have important conversations and like tap into resources that are available to us, and that that happened well before any sort of formal succession or change in in guard, so to speak.

0:16:04 - Meghan Lynch
Yeah, and I think that that's really important too, because this isn't something that you get to practice right Like. You don't do this many times over the history of a company. You get one shot, and so talking with people, working with people who have gotten multiple opportunities to try it, to see what works, what doesn't, and can learn from that, definitely gives you the benefit of the experience without actually having to go out and have

0:16:33 - Sally Ekus
So the brand was first Lisa Ekus Public Relations. Before I was involved, she rebranded into the Lisa Ekus Group many, many years ago when she altered how we were presenting our services fee-based both services and commission-based representation. And then, when I joined, we we strategized and mapped out when it would transition from the Lisa Ekus Group to the Ekus group. Right, that makes sense. Under my leadership, Ekus is still a core focus and then really set the stage and set up the on ramp for OK, where do we go from here and how does the agency continue to evolve? So it was both thoughtfulness and also practical things like how will our logo change and what do we communicate to our clients and what's our brand message, you know, and so it's really. We did a lot of like working on the work, in addition to in the work.

0:17:33 - Meghan Lynch
We're listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. I'm here with my Sally Ekus, a literary agent for culinary talent. Sally has broken over 300 book deals with top publishers, including Penguin, Random House, Harper Collins, Simon and Schuster and numerous indie publishers. We're talking with Sally about how to lead substantial change in a company without losing its essence and identity. So, Sally, I want to fast forward us a little bit to today. So you went through the leadership transition with your mom, but even more recently, you had the opportunity to merge the Ekus group with another trailblazing agency that's well known in the publishing arena, JVNLA, and I think this is just a brilliant and gutsy move for both of you. But I just want I was hoping that you could talk to us a little bit about how you see this merger really setting the stage for continued evolution for the Ekus Group, for your clients and for the legacy that your mom started all those years ago.

0:18:54 - Sally Ekus
Yeah, I am so lucky that we have these parallels between the two agencies, because so JVNLA was founded by Jean V Nagar, and Jean was Lisa's first job in publishing. She had an internship Jean, and and tells stories of watching Jean build her agency out of her house, raising her kiddos and doing it all. Right, doing the, doing it all. And so that was a foundational philosophy that Lisa had entering into this industry. Fast forward, Jean has since retired and her daughter, Jennifer, is now leading JVNLA agency, and they primarily do not handle culinary titles, and there's long-standing a symmetry between the two agencies and, in fact, when Lisa started representing literary clients, her very first book deals were supported through back office operations through JVNLA, and so in the database that I am now using today are the very first contracts that Lisa ever sold because long-standing this support and symmetry between the two agencies.

So fast forward to the past year, when I'm thinking about the evolution of the Ekus group and where we go as a culinary agency, and thinking about what I love and where I can go in terms of my sort of superpowers working on client development, client management, author care and representing and selling book projects and I really wanted an opportunity to do more of what I love in that space.

I mean, I've been 15 years young in this industry, I've got a lot of deals left in me and I love the clients that you know. I inherited our legacy clients and also the clients that I'm actively scouting, signing and selling now, and partnering with JVNLA has offered me the opportunity to focus more on doing the work day to day and having an infrastructure of support and the team that I can lean on to troubleshoot, to celebrate, to vent. You know it's a mid-size in terms of our employee community team. It's not 30 agents and it's not one like me, and so it's a really lovely way to continue forward the author advocacy and author care that I love so deeply with with more team and support.

0:21:38 - Meghan Lynch
And I think it does go to show that, when you're thinking about having a company, a legacy that does transcend industry changes, you know, personnel changes, all of those things that having relationships goes a long way to really creating that network of support that you need to have a generational company, to have a generational legacy and to have something that's going to truly last and make an impact in an industry. And I think that that this merger is such a great example of how building those partnerships, taking those relationships seriously, about how you know it all comes full circle.

0:22:29 - Sally Ekus
Right, yeah, I mean

the name Ekus is so ingrained in the cook on the cookbook shelf and I'm incredibly fortunate to have stepped into that and then continue that forward in terms of my own actions in representing in this space.

And you know, there's this, this balance that I'm always looking to hold around how to honor Lisa's legacy, continue to cultivate mine and and maintain and celebrate, like the strength of the brand. Right, like we like there are many cookbook agents out there now. Lisa was one of the first and we were. We're known in the culinary space, you know, we're known on the on the cookbook shelf and so the legacy of how those titles will continue forward is a huge task. Right, there's like there's the sort of esoteric sense of it and then there's the practical sense, like there's the paperwork and there's the data. And to do right by that legacy is to always be thinking about how can the infrastructure be in place to carry forward these titles, these talents, in a way that you know keeps books in print and keeps the, the culinary bookshelf, really thriving, and that's one of the many, many gifts and intentions in this merger.

0:23:58 - Meghan Lynch
And I think that you also kind of have to have a real abundance mindset when you're dealing with that, because I think that some people could could look at that and just see, you know, a loss of autonomy, a loss of identity, you know kind of all of the loss around it, and but it sounds like you're really looking at it from a place of abundance. And what do we need to put in into place in terms of infrastructure for support moving forward? Not a sense of how do we hold too tightly on to this.

0:24:32 - Sally Ekus
I mean a huge nod to Jennifer, who is the president of JVNLA now, who really recognizes that the Ekus Group name is part of the value and the brand to celebrate. And so the Ekus Group remains the boutique, culinary and lifestyle division of JVNLA, with the same legacy and credit that we've always had, with more infrastructure and team support, which is just, I mean, it's ideal. I'm so, so grateful to her and to Lisa and to the opportunity you know to just keep keep doing what I'm doing.

0:25:11 - Meghan Lynch
Speaking of that, I'd love just to talk a little bit more, before we wrap up, about some of the work that you do with with brands, because I know that one of the things that a lot of generational brands struggle with is kind of how to make sense of their story right, you know that, like the story of the brand whether it's the story that you told of of Lisa starting this business, or whether it's the story of you know a food manufacturer, you know who started with a recipe and you know a great grandmother's kitchen you know how do we make sense of that story and really make it into an asset in the business. But I love the potential of a book as being a tangible, meaningful, emotional way to do that. So I'm curious if you just want to talk a little bit about how you've seen brands leverage the world of publishing to bring value and kind of bring these two worlds together.

0:26:13 - Sally Ekus
Sure, books are big, beautiful business cards and there's more space in a book than a business card to tell your story.

So it's an opportunity to tell your share, your narrative, share your mission.

It's a calling card to your current customers and it's also a business card to introduce new customers to you. And business card, you know, maybe it's a QR code or maybe it's something digital that you just flashed at people and somehow it downloads automatically to their brain, but essentially it's an extension of your brand and it's a wonderful way to have long form content to pull people in and really get into the meat of it. This might look like a custom publishing project where a brand goes completely insular and self publishes a book that is highly representative and almost regurgitative, in the best way, of that brand, like they know exactly what that book to look and feel like. Or it might be a traditional publishing book where you are leveraging your story, your brand, your audience in a way to expand to new customers, new clients and share a broader message that speaks even beyond your brand, and that's usually the tipping point for when a traditional publisher would get involved versus a custom publishing project, it really starts to have that bigger, wider audience.

0:27:36 - Meghan Lynch
Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah, that makes sense and there is something just emotionally powerful and tangible about a book that other forms of media just don't have.

0:27:53 - Sally Ekus
Yeah, it's classic credibility, right? I mean, if you have a book, you have a new shiny product to say hey, local news station, radio station, podcast, have me on, I've got something to say and share. And it's also like it's finite, sometimes in the best way, sometimes in the "oh my gosh, I found a typo way. But you know it's old-school credibility.

0:28:18 - Meghan Lynch
Yeah, I love that and I love the idea of a book as a business card. I mean, what a what a like, true again, tangible, weighty way to just say like we've been here, and I think particularly for for a brand that does have, you know, feels the weight of a history and a legacy. It kind of creates something that feels like it, it represents that weight and that legacy in a way that honors it, as opposed to you know how do we fit it into an about us section on a website?

0:28:55 - Sally Ekus
Exactly. One place that I think brands sometimes fall short is thinking about how are we going to handle marketing this coming year, what is our ad spend going to be? And having these huge marketing and advertising plans, maybe even outside agencies budgets, and then they also, completely independently, are thinking, oh, we want to do a legacy book this year and that book really needs to be integrated into a marketing plan, and I think the two can coexist really beautifully and really successfully together when thought about that catalyst moment at the very beginning and run parallel. And some brands have done that really really well and some like, wait, the left hand's not even talking to the right hand here. Let's get everyone together. And that's what I love as an agent. And also, I think what's a point of differentiation of my particular agenting style is because I'm not just saying what is the book project at hand, I'm asking how does it fit with the larger company brand marketing plans, because I was trained by a publicist.

0:30:05 - Meghan Lynch
Yeah, and that's so huge, because how often do those things happen where, especially for something like that, where it's almost like we think of publishing the book as being the end of the process instead of what it really is, which is more like the beginning of the year?

0:30:24 - Sally Ekus
Actually, it's the beginning.

0:30:25 - Meghan Lynch
You're just getting started.

0:30:26 - Sally Ekus
Yes, I was on a scouting call the other day actually not for a food book, because every now and then we deviate, which was just throw a wrench in right at the end of our conversation but and the person I was talking to like really got it, they were just so clear that the book. They even said something like oh, we have this whole marketing plan this year and this just fits in perfectly to that and I was like, yes, yes, it does, so we'll see how that goes.

0:30:55 - Meghan Lynch
I think that's really important, I think, for people to think about whether they kind of have a book in their head that they want to be to get out there someday, or whether they've got something in the works that they're thinking about, to really be thinking about not just how do I go through the mechanics of getting this book written and printed, but then what, what, why, why are we doing this and why is a book the right medium, and what happens with it next? And so I can see we're having somebody that has both the knowledge and understanding of the publishing world, which has changed so much and has gotten so, you know, kind of complex and fractured in some ways, and also this eye of the publicist of saying, oh, and these are all the things that we can do with it. And this is just the beginning. I think that, yeah, super valuable lens.

You are listening Building Unbreakable Brands the podcast for leaders with a generational mindset. My guest is Sally second-generation , family business cookbook agent, improviser, mom and taco lover. In our final segment, we are going to put all of her various skills and identities to the test as I turn the mic over to the next. My son, Henry, is coming in with some questions for Sally, so take it away, Henry.

0:32:19 - Henry Lynch
Hi Sally. My question is what if a book is bad? Would one person tell other people not to buy it because they didn't like it?

0:32:31 - Sally Ekus
Oh, Henry, that is a tricky question and you know my goal is to help books that help people get into the world and it's not necessarily just my decision if a book is bad or good, but if I think a book is bad and some other people kind of think it's not that good, it might be not a book that gets published and there's a lot of opportunity for trying to put out good stuff in the world, and I'm really lucky in that the clients that I get to work with are, I think, good, good people putting out really fun ideas, and I get to help spread their message.

0:33:18 - Henry Lynch
One last question. What's your favorite book?

0:33:23 - Sally Ekus
Whoa Henry, oh, coming out swinging. My favorite book ever, my favorite cookbook. My favorite kids book. My favorite fiction book. My favorite nonfiction book, my favorite comic book? Man, Henry, that is a really, really hard question. Well, I have always really loved a book called Pretend Soup by Molly Katzen, which is a book with recipes for kids to cook that has really beautiful illustrations in it and it is one of the books that I've made some recipes from and enjoy looking through with my daughter now, and is a classic. So check it out.

0:34:14 - Henry Lynch
Thanks, Sally. I also have a joke for you. Why shouldn't you trust tacos? Because they always spill the beans.

0:34:25 - Sally Ekus
Oh, that's a good one.

0:34:28 - Meghan Lynch
Love it. Thank you so much, Henry. Some great questions for Sally, and thank you, Sally, this was such a really great conversation. So if any listeners have a book in the back of their mind, a cookbook in the back of their mind, how should they get in touch with you? I know you also have a course on how to write a cookbook or what you need to do to get your cookbook out into the world. So how can people find you and get in touch with you?

0:34:56 - Sally Ekus
People can find me in my email, sally at ekusgroup dot ecstgroupcom, or online at Sally Ekus S-A-L-L-Y-E-K-U-S. On places like Instagram, which is where most of what I do is hanging out there, and also what our clients do. Thank you, Meghan, thanks so much.

0:35:16 - Meghan Lynch
Awesome. We will link to that in the show notes and thank you, Sally, so much for your wisdom, your insights and for sharing your journey with us. It was so much fun to learn more about what you do. Wow, I loved hearing Sally's stories about moving from being just that kid in the photos with Julia Child to being the visionary behind a collaborative merger. I think my big takeaways, as I think about this conversation, are that it's never too early to think about succession, the earlier the better. I also love the collaborative approach that Sally and Lisa have had as they've grown the company, which ultimately led to an opportunity for a merger. That's going to allow the Ekus legacy to stay intact, because for a brand to really be lasting, you have to find collaborators who share its values and see value in it. If you enjoyed this episode, please be sure to subscribe to the podcast and don't forget to leave us a review.

0:36:22 - Henry Lynch
Thank you for listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, or BUB, as we like to call it.