Building Unbreakable Brands

Meghan Lynch (00:00):
One way a company endures is by both safeguarding and continuing to evolve its culture to be healthy and resilient. Our guest today is an expert in cultural transformation. She talks about how it's possible to measure something as nebulous as company culture and how doing so can actually help you influence it. Plus, as always, we have Henry as the voice of the next generation asking questions about why the heck adults would need help working together. All this and more coming up in this episode of Building Unbreakable Brands. Welcome to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast where we talk to business leaders with a generational mindset. I'm Megan Lynch. I'm an advisor to family businesses and founder of sixpoint, a brand strategy agency that helps generational brands honor their past while evolving for the future. Today my guest is Ruth Lund. Ruth is the co-founder and CEO of true North Culture advisors. And Ruth also serves as a Vistage chair, a leading CEO peer group in the greater Boston area. So welcome Ruth. So glad to have you on the show.

Ruth Lund (01:16):
Meghan, thanks so much for inviting me. I've been looking forward to this.

Meghan Lynch (01:18):
Me too. I was hoping that you could start off by talking to us a little bit about the work of True North and in particular how this work started. How did you start working in culture advisory work and the particular lens that True North does that work through?

Ruth Lund (01:38):
Probably about 15 years ago now, I started working with a holding company that had four organizations underneath its umbrella, and I was working in the organizational development part of that company. We had a CEO who really wanted to make sure that our organization was walking the talk with our values and the behaviors that supported our values no matter what element of the business that we were involved in or what one of those four businesses. So it was really like how do we create an intentional values driven culture across 50 locations in the US and Canada, which is a pretty hefty thing to try to keep your fingers on, right? Yeah. I had the privilege to work with some other OD specialists over a period of about six years, and we came up with a process that included a really brilliant measurement of culture that actually was demonstrating that we were getting healthier, we were getting measurably more aligned to our values and our behaviors, and we were developing leaders and work groups to create that level of health and alignment across the organization. And of course that translates into performance, greater retention, greater synergies. And so we really thought, man, we had something special. And there's got to be other CEOs out there that are grappling with getting their arms around this marshmallow of culture, even though they know it's impacting the performance of their organization. So we took the show on the road.

Meghan Lynch (03:11):
I love that you put your finger on that because I do think for a lot of leaders, culture is something that simultaneously is critically important to the success of the company. You feel it when it's good, you feel it when it's bad, but this idea of measuring culture of actually putting numbers and data to something that usually feels much more like a gut driven decision. Can you talk a little bit more about how you measure something like specific as culture?

Ruth Lund (03:43):
Yeah. So we ran across, back in 2008, we ran across a cultural measurement from the Barrett Value Center. They're actually out of the uk, and so it's their IP that we've built a lot of our work off of and we're in a close partnership with them. But basically it helps us measure culture through the values that are being held by the people within the organization, the values that they experience on a consistent basis and the values that they want to see that would help them be even more high performing. And when we measure what they experience, we also measure the dysfunction because we measure not only positive values, but what are those dysfunctional or potentially limiting values like greed and control and power and silo mentality, all those things that we know exist to greater and lesser degrees across large organizations or any organization. But what are those things that are really putting a drag on where your organization is going and the energy that's being expended by your people?

(04:46):
So we get to take a look at the alignment of what's important to people and what they're experiencing and what they want. How aligned are we? And if we have espoused values, are they actually being felt and experienced within the organization? So is that actually something that we're doing together or are they just words on the wall? And then there's also that idea of how much dysfunction and where is it existing in our organization? And if we know that, then how do we go at it and help those leaders who are leading those divisions or those groups lead in a more effective and powerful way?

Meghan Lynch (05:22):
Why is it important to measure it? Why does measuring matter?

Ruth Lund (05:27):
We find that most business leaders want to understand are they improving? Are they moving the needle or are they really in that washing machine where it's just the same old thing is happening over and over? And so I like to say there's an accountability that comes with measurement, but there's also an opportunity as a leader because if you think about it, I have an accountability to make sure I'm working on these things that I have now become aware of. I've lifted up the rock as, oh, okay, we see this now we have this accountability to do something. But the other side of that coin is that it's this beautiful opportunity to take what reality is that we may or may not have really had a grasp on and then do something with it because the reality is there, whether we have acknowledged it or not, whether we're aware of it, whether we want to know it, it's at play in our organization. And so wouldn't you want to know? And that's that gift of feedback. This is what's actually happening, let's move it where we want it to go.

Meghan Lynch (06:32):
Yeah, and I imagine that as a leader of an organization with a strong vision that does want to measure that measuring, it does also give you a chance to show and document progress on something that again, the team might feel in some way, but would let not only the leader get a little bit of sense of how are they doing or how is the team doing? But let the organization as a whole start to see that sense of progress of, oh, we were here now we're here a

Ruth Lund (07:05):
Hundred percent, a hundred percent. I can't tell you how many times the measurement has been a lift and galvanizing to an organization. Oh, we are on the right track. We're not guessing and hoping we actually are getting measurement that's telling us we are increasing our alignment, we're decreasing our dysfunction. This is working. They want more of this. And there's nothing like getting that positive affirmation. I have a great story that I'll share with you during covid, one of our long-term clients, they measure their culture with us every other year. And so that February right before everything hit, I think at that point it was their third or fourth cultural measurement with us. And so they got their feedback, they're a pretty healthy organization, they felt good about it. We met, we dissected strengths, opportunities where they were moving well, and then we turned around and everybody went home and they went from being in downtown Boston operating firm to everybody's working remotely.

(08:06):
And we had an opportunity to in May. So shortly after, we were all figuring out how do we do this remote thing together and how are our people feeling? We snapped the line again with a second, we called it the Covid cultural assessment and the inputs that we got from the organization with such a breath of wind to these weary leaders who were trying desperately to care for their people and their clients and keep the wheels on the bus and move to being remote work. And were they communicating enough and they got this snapshot from their organization at such a critical time to say, yes, this is really hitting it for us and do more of this. This could really help us. Yeah, it's not just looking and finding the dysfunction, it's also celebrating this is important to us and actually our people are experiencing it,

Meghan Lynch (08:59):
Which tells you as a leader or a leadership team, keep spending energy here. This is time well spent. Because sometimes it can feel like you're doing things, but you have no sense of is it the right thing? Is it enough? Is it too much? Are people getting sick of it? So having data on that, and particularly that's such a great story because during, I feel like leaders would've killed for some kind of data and insight on what the heck do I do? I think everything felt so fuzzy that having anything that felt concrete to grab onto must have been, just felt like a huge lifeline.

Ruth Lund (09:36):
Oh, we were all building a bridge as we were walking on it. So there were so many unknown unknowns. And one of the things that we were so gratified by is that during that season, even though every organization that we worked with had their unknown futures, we didn't know how long this was going to go. None of 'em shut down their contracts with us. Wow. Yeah, they just leaned in. The other piece about this timeframe that I think is really important to point out is we had one organization, pretty good size, US-based organization with nine divisions, and they had been on a steady march. They had a new CEO come in. They were on a steady march to really be more unified, aligned, healthier, and they'd been working and working. We'd worked with them for about three years. And when Covid hit, it was, I used this word earlier, COVID was a galvanizer for them. And so when we measured their culture after they had been through nine months of covid, they actually leapt forward in their cultural health. Their leaders had been focusing on the right things. They had been doubling down on how they were communicating and caring for their people and caring for the business. And so they had been putting these bricks in place and then wham, but they were ready for it, and we were stunned by, they just leapt forward and they weren't caught flatfooted, which was pretty cool. Wow.

Meghan Lynch (11:00):
Yeah. That's amazing. And goes to show how much it does matter to be focusing on some of those things and laying that groundwork before the crisis hits so easy to in a crisis, all of a sudden say, oh, when your culture's falling apart to say, oh, we've got to do something about it, but to start laying the groundwork early enough so when that pressure hits you're already strong and then can rise to it, I would imagine makes a huge difference and allows you to play to strengths as opposed to just shore up weaknesses.

Ruth Lund (11:33):
Yeah, it's the proactive. It's not the reactive style of leadership, it's the proactive. So it's recognizing that we can do something and should be doing something about it even when the waters are calm because they're not always going to be that way. And what we found, Megan, when we hung our shingle out many years ago and we had no idea who's going to be attracted to bring us in to help them with this, are we going to be going in and working with really broken organizations? But what we found was that unless there was a change at the top, if there was a new CEO who came on board that really wanted to understand what they were leading and they needed help with that, but absent that, the organizations that we worked with were really healthy organizations because they had leaders who were thinking about the important and not urgent in the moment, but they would be someday. And so these really visionary had their eyes on the right strategic things and were willing to invest the time and effort to make sure that they were improving and growing and protecting this special thing in their organizations before the wheels came off, not just reacting to it.

Meghan Lynch (12:48):
You were listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. I'm here with Ruth Lund, CEO of True North, culture advisors, Ruth's team at True North, and my team at Six-Point have worked on some generational companies to together, and I thought it would be fun to talk a little bit about how some companies with that generational mindset who are thinking far ahead, not just the next three years or five years, but in sometimes the next 20 years, 30 years, 50 years, how they're using culture as a key way to energize the legacy of the company and to start to set it up for that long-term success. I know one of the companies that our team collaborated with your team at True North on, they're a company that we work with a lot of family businesses, generational family businesses, but this company was not a family business.

(13:49):
It was founded from partners who had this idea of building a generational company, but not almost like a chosen family as opposed to a blood family. But they had this idea of wanting to build something that was going to outlast them, something that they were setting up the next leaders almost as soon as it was founded. And I don't know about for you, but I was a little bit surprised in a good way. I'd never heard a company be so strong and clear about we are here for the generations as this company, and I'd love to just understand a little bit more about how that generational mindset influenced their work with you at True North.

Ruth Lund (14:40):
Sure. We've had a long-term relationship with that organization through some other different facets, but they brought us in when they really wanted to make sure they were evolving. So in other words, not only protecting that beautiful DNA of having the thinking and how they were strategizing how they invested and built the organization not just for today but for the future. So that was always part of their DNA. And right now the second generation is leading that organization and they're preparing the third, but they also wanted to explore what were those things that were maybe not part of their DNA today, and maybe not descriptive, maybe more aspirational, but that they felt really needed to have attention now and to start building some new muscles for the future. And so that's when we came in and started working with them and with their leadership team. And they've been brilliant to work with, talk about the most selfless, future centric people that are looking to lift up the next generation. It really is remarkable.

Meghan Lynch (15:51):
For me, one of the things that struck me was hearing stories about some of the leadership development and kind of mentorship programs that they were putting into place. Again, very early on, identifying leaders with potential in the company and giving them just almost wrapping support around them to say, we see you as a future part of the company and here are things that you might not be thinking of, but that we're thinking of and just really wraparound support to their leaders. Do you know at all why that was so important to them?

Ruth Lund (16:34):
I think we always talk about the fact that a culture is shaped by leaders, and so the founders of the organization had that secure mindset, and we like to call it an abundance mindset. So these were leaders who were very secure in what they were bringing to the organization, to their clients, to the world, and that deep sense of security spills out. You don't have to protect something, right? You don't have to protect your power and your knowledge when you have that more abundant mindset. And so that was, the founders had a lot of that in their DNA, and they surrounded themselves with leaders that replicated that. So that's where the culture of, again, abundant mindset, future generations, helping leaders not be protective and siloed, but seeing the joy that happens when the rising tide raises all the boats. We can build something together that's going to be so much bigger than what you and I bring. And that's a really special character attribute that not a whole lot of organizations are able to foster. And I think it's because they've been intentional about who they are and who they're developing and who they're bringing in into the organization. And there's a lot of humility. There's a lot of humility at the core of this leadership team,

Meghan Lynch (17:56):
And I do think that you need that humility in place to have that sharing open mindset. I feel like it's much more common to see the opposite of almost information hoarding or power hoarding where people start to feel like, oh, if I teach other people about what I'm doing, they're going to judge it, or My job's going to go away, or they're going to something. Again, that scarcity mindset of there's not enough. So I have to try to keep as much as I can for myself, but this idea of wanting to share it with other people and yeah, I feel like generosity and humility are so core to actually making something like that work and really fostering it. Are there things that you've seen them be able to innovate or do differently simply because of their core values and how strong that they are?

Ruth Lund (18:53):
I think that one of the things that I'm watching them do today, which I've never seen another organization do, and again, I think it's because their foundation is so solid and their leadership team is so transparent, so growth mindset, so others centric, that it's creating this environment for them to look at. You're talking about generational firms and how they're thinking about this next generation. They're approaching how they examine their structure, their organizational structure for the future, and they're thinking about it today. And one of the innovative ways that they're going about it is they're bringing their emerging leaders together. These are their young high potentials that they really want to hold onto and help them grow the organization for the future, but they're bringing them together and they're exploring and exposing them, exploring with them and exposing them to all kinds of different ways that a professional services firm such as theirs can be structured and the good, the bad, and the ugly with them.

(20:03):
What are the upsides of this? What are the tails that come with this kind of organization? But they're spending a year exploring and pulling apart different organizational structures, and then their end game is to pull some of the insights and recommendations and ideas from this next generation, which blows my mind because frankly what I see so much more of is the leaders that have built something special, they're scared to death that it's not going to be protected the way that they built it, and they somehow want to keep everything that's important to them continuing in the next generation, even though the next generation may have an evolving set of priorities. I just love the idea that they're getting ahead of this and they're exploring what would be some of the thinking of the next generation, because whether they know it or not, it's there. And if they really know it, then they work to create that next season of the organization's life in a way that actually will not just be propped up and hopeful, but actually be grounded on agreed upon solid perceptions that they share. So I just think it blows my mind that they're going there.

Meghan Lynch (21:18):
Yeah. Yeah. That's really exciting. It almost feels, it does feel the opposite of what most companies do, which is, ooh, this new generation is coming in and they've got different ideas or different ways. How do we show them the importance of and mold them into what we're doing and train them in our way? It sounds like this organization is doing the opposite of saying, Ooh, they've got new ideas, they've got new priorities. How do we listen to that and start to mold the organization to work for them as opposed to them to work for the organization?

Ruth Lund (21:59):
And yet it's, as you say that what goes through my mind is they are still very distinct and sure about future generations, about humility. Their substantive values are not up for grabs and to be and wishy-washy really solid, but they recognize that the expression of them may look a little bit different with this next generation. So it's really wisely balancing what do we really need to preserve? What does that gold of our company, and then where can we be expansive with other ways of structuring for that, for example?

Meghan Lynch (22:39):
Yeah. That somehow the essence or the core doesn't change, but how it's expressed or what structure might hold it. Those are all the things that we have identified as being able to change as long as these few core things remain constant. Exactly. Yeah, I love that so much. When you are working with companies who and leaders who are thinking long-term and who do have some of these values driven ideas about how they want their company to work, what are some of the things that you see them struggling with or having difficulty with? Where are they getting caught up?

Ruth Lund (23:26):
We hear a lot about the different styles of the different generations and the rub between the boomers and the millennials or whatever one you want to bring forward, just these rubs because there could be some different ways to approach work and what's valuable. So I think that still we have a lot of boomers that are still leading organizations and looking at the generations coming up behind them as being less than versus generations coming up, having some other values that they're looking to hold in balance a little bit differently than maybe our boomer generation has. So that's one thing that we have a lot of conversations with leaders of teams about is how do we pull forward the beauty from this next generation and what do we have to teach them and what do they have to teach us? I think it's Mark Twain who said, I'm amazed at the older I get.

(24:30):
I'm amazed at how young my teachers are becoming, isn't that great? But this goes back to that whole idea of confident humility, that value of being confident in your skills and your abilities and your experience, but then that teachable perspective of there's still so much more left to learn and isn't it beautiful that the generations coming up behind us can teach us too? It's not a one-way street. We can really learn from each other. And those are the ones that I think do it the most brilliantly. But that's hard. That's hard for some people to get to.

Meghan Lynch (25:03):
It is hard. I'm curious, do you see them also not only appreciate the differences between them but also sometimes get surprised at similarities that they felt like the gap was bigger than what it actually was once they distill it down to core values or to behaviors that they wanted? That's

Ruth Lund (25:23):
A great question. We have so many experiences with leaders. We do some exercises with leaders where they look at their own core values and we have 'em like list out with a lot of prompts for it. The 10 things that really drive who they are, not who they aspire to be, but who they really think they're showing up as consistently in an organization. And when we bring them together, and we often will set up one-on-ones for them to deep dive together into where did this come from and why is it important and what does it feel like when it's not honored and et cetera. And it never fails Megan, that they'll come out of these conversations and say, whoa, we had this shared childhood experience. We have this shared value, and they didn't know that about each other until we had these kind of intentional conversations about who are you? What's driving you and where did that come from and how do you manage it when you're not swimming in that water, when it's actually difficult for you, then you really do see those commonalities bubble forward, and that's where trust on teams starts to really generate even the ability to value other people's values. When you hear, where did that come from, what engendered that really passionate value inside of you, because we've all got 'em.

Meghan Lynch (26:50):
So that what you're saying is that when leaders on a team together can hear not just, oh, I value hard work or something that when they hear the story behind Why do I value hard work? How did that show up throughout my life? Why is it so important to me? And do some of that storytelling with each other that it enables them to not only find similarities, but also to appreciate like, oh, even though I didn't put that down as mine, now that I understand where that comes from, I'm going to have a little bit more respect for it or honor it more in you. Is that right?

Ruth Lund (27:36):
Yeah, totally. You're really learning about the deeper levels of human beings that you're working with, and that's just nothing but good. The more we can understand what people are passionate about and what built that into them and what triggers them, and sometimes some of the experiences aren't, I had the most hardworking dad and man, he drilled into me work ethic. Some stories are like that, but some stories are really sad where people are moving, they're running in the opposite direction of a model that taught them honesty and integrity is a number one to me because I've experienced the real loss of that and it was scarring, right? So it gives the team and team members an opportunity to really get to know each other at a very different level.

Meghan Lynch (28:27):
I love that. And we don't really make a lot of space for those kinds of convers, again, we go just up to the line of talking about values or putting them on a wall or defining them, but to take them that extra hyper personal level. That sounds incredibly powerful.

Ruth Lund (28:50):
I think it is. And frankly, Megan, most people have never stopped and explored what they really value. Some people have done some of this work, but I think it's 1% of who we work with, so it is pretty special. But the other part of it is, and I really didn't mention this earlier in our conversation when we were back in my parent company when we were building this workout, we were looking for ways to really do it authentically. And so we can come up with a whole bunch of gorgeous values that sound so amazing, but if they're not really who we are, if we really can't from the soul of who we are, lead to them because of all kinds of different reasons, we're never going to get there. So that's why that step of who are you as a leader of this organization and can you be a servant leader? Is that part of your DNA servant leadership is one of those values that's beautiful, and a lot of people would love to think they're doing it, but again, that's a tough bar to hit. So can you actually put that out there authentically? And the more yourself and your team, the more you can set values that are more descriptive than just aspirational when

Meghan Lynch (30:05):
Companies have been growing because you're coming into companies that are already very well established that have functioning leadership teams, it sounds are coming, engaging you for the most part, a position of strength. Do you find that there is a large amount of diversity within the values, or do you find that they've naturally surrounded themselves with people who do share some core values alike?

Ruth Lund (30:35):
Yeah, that's a great question because one of the things I think we always get afraid of is that we're going to create this group, think we're all going to be vanilla, and there's not going to be any diversity of thought in our organization. We really don't find that. What we find is when you have people who are coming together and there are four or six fundamental things that they want to operate within, then the freedom to express all kinds of different ways of thinking and problem solving becomes more freed up. Because what you're doing is you're reducing the fear and the dysfunction that actually can engender more of a lockstep sheep type environment because it's not safe to bring forward a really out there idea. That's not part of our culture. We don't want to be accountable. We don't want to raise our hand and lift our head. So when you have a healthy core values that are creating an environment where people can speak up and bring different ways of looking at things together, that's when it really works.

Meghan Lynch (31:40):
Oh, that's so interesting. And could be a little bit counterintuitive, but yeah, I love that

(31:49):
You're listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. I'm here with my guest, Ruth Lund, who's CEO of true North Culture Advisors, and Ruth is also a Vistage chair. Vistage is a leading CEO peer group organization, and Ruth leads a Vistage chapter in the Boston area. So Ruth, you and I first met at a Vistage event. That was actually the first time I ever, I think you were a speaker at Vistage, and I was just fascinated by your story and what you were talking about, but, and so you've been a member of Vistage for a while and now about a year and a half, almost two years have been a chair. I'm curious about what drew you into Vistage. Why do you find this model of peer learning, CEO round tables as being such a powerful tool?

Ruth Lund (32:45):
I don't think I'd be sitting in the seat if it hadn't been for my Vistage group helping me transition from being an internal contributor inside a larger company and then found myself running a startup consultancy. And I always thought, I have no business doing this. What am I doing? And imposter syndrome was certainly a thing sometimes in a healthy way because it really spurred me on to learn. I had no idea what I was doing. So this idea of learning from people who are smart and experienced and Vistage tends to draw really generous people who want to see others succeed. So it's such a win environment. And then there's that saying it's lonely at the top when you're leading an organization to have a safe entity where you can really be transparent and you don't have to prop things up and make 'em look shiny, but you can just be real and explain the challenges and the opportunities, and then have all of these other minds help you untangle and sort and make smarter decisions faster. That's really the tagline, and I found that it did that for me. For eight years I was a member and then my chair was retiring and asked me if I would consider leading it. And it's just such a privilege. It really is.

Meghan Lynch (34:08):
Yeah, that sounds amazing. And I do think that that safe space where you do feel like you can just walk in the door and everybody in the room understands you at some fundamental level, we all want that in different aspects of our life, and I think for CEOs or leaders of businesses, that can be an incredibly powerful tool. You've been talking with leaders over the past couple years and either as a member or as a chair facilitating some of these discussions. Are you noticing any patterns or commonalities between the issues that leaders are struggling with right now?

Ruth Lund (34:45):
I think one of them is what we were talking about earlier, which is how do we position our organizations for when we're no longer there? I've been in the group for now almost 10 years, so there certainly are a number of CEOs who are really looking at, have I prepared that next generation and my successor? So that certainly is a piece of it. And then of course, we're all still figuring out the balance of remote work and how it works in different organizations and how do we keep that connectivity That still is an evolving, unfolding challenge that I think it's going to take us years to really untangle. And so learning from each other, the things that are working and the things that are not, I think has been really brilliant. And then of course with social media, how there's so much noise out there. How do we break through the noise and become a distinctive voice in our vertical? Those are some of the things that come quickly to mind.

Meghan Lynch (35:52):
Yeah, I do feel like right now there's so much content and so much noise and so many choices right now that it does feel like, and even seeing the explosion of AI now, it's like AI tools, everything. Seeing people almost back away from adopting anything just because they're so overwhelmed with choices, so overwhelmed. I look at my email box each morning and think, oh my gosh, I've got maybe a half dozen emails that I regularly read from out of dozens and dozens that come into my inbox each day, and I self-select a few that I regularly read, but all the rest is just, even if they're good, it's just too much. Too much. So I do think that brands that can either differentiate themselves and stand out and be super important to a very niche group or brands that can actually help people solve that curation problem of what do I pay attention to? I pay attention to this brand, this thought leader, this company, because they help me show me what I should pay attention to, and I trust that. Yeah.

Ruth Lund (37:12):
Even now that you mentioned that our Vistage group has been helping each other with that. Yeah. So what are those voices that we have individually found to be really powerful? And so we've been bringing forward to each other different podcasts, different articles that have had great meaning, and then we unpack 'em together. How many times have you listened to a really brilliant podcast and you just want to push it around with somebody for a while, really dissect it and implanted around your circumstances? And so our group has really had some fun in taking some of the current thinking, and then you have 16 different brains talking about it and like a Rubik's cube turning it around together, which was just such a beautiful exercise.

Meghan Lynch (37:59):
And I'm sure it can help you for something that maybe you would have just hit trash on or gone right over without paying attention to. All of a sudden somebody brings it forward and gives it a half turn and you're like, oh, shoot. I totally would've missed that if you hadn't brought that to my attention or talked about it that way. I would've missed this insight or this viewpoint. Yeah, I could be so valuable to have that diversity of perspective and just so many more people out reading things, listening to things.

Ruth Lund (38:32):
Yeah. Let's face it, we're at a point in history where being open to other thinking that isn't our current own, but being curious about how other people might be looking at a similar situation and understanding why it's something we're in desperate need of is that openness. And I go back to that language competent humility, right? Not wishy-washy, pretty sure of who you are, but also open to expanding your understanding of things and being exposed to things you maybe never heard before.

Meghan Lynch (39:07):
Yeah, that's great. So speaking of, you are listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast for leaders with a generational mindset, and my guest is Ruth Lund, CEO of True North Culture Advisors. And before we wrap up, Ruth, we are going to bring in one of those perspectives and turn the mic over to the next generation. My son, Henry, who's eight, has a few questions for you based on what he knows about your work in True North. So we're going to turn the mic over to him and hear what he has to say.

Ruth Lund (39:44):
Love it.

Henry Lynch (39:45):
Hi Ruth. My first question for you is why do adults need help working together?

Ruth Lund (39:51):
Henry asks the best questions. I love it. Oh, Henry, the reality is that we all have different ways of doing things and looking at things, and sometimes they can be really different and it feels super uncomfortable, and so finding ways to respect other people's opinions and methods and learning how to collaborate so you can actually get things done together and not only get things done, but have a blast doing it because you enjoy each other. That's why it's so important.

Henry Lynch (40:25):
What is the hardest part of your job?

Ruth Lund (40:28):
Another good one. I think it's when I'm working with a leader who really struggles to own when they have made mistakes or when there's an area that they probably need to grow in because it's getting in their way and it's slowing them down from what they want to do, but it's hard for them to accept that there's something that's not perfect about them. So I think that's one of the hardest things is how do we approach that conversation and help them feel safe enough to look at that?

Henry Lynch (40:59):
What is the best part of your job?

Ruth Lund (41:02):
The best part. That's when I have an opportunity with a team or a leader to facilitate a conversation where they have this just huge aha if I ask the right questions and get them to a place where they can really explore things, and then they have figured something out and it's like this big light bulb has gone off over their heads. That's the best part. I feel like I've done good work.

Henry Lynch (41:31):
Thanks, Ruth. I also have a joke for you who wins in a fight between Sunday and Monday. Sunday, because Monday is a weekday.

Ruth Lund (41:43):
That's a good one.

Meghan Lynch (41:46):
Got to love the comedian, Henry. Thank you so much, Henry.

Ruth Lund (41:50):
Great questions. Thanks, Henry.

Meghan Lynch (41:52):
Thank you so much, Ruth. Those were great answers too. Appreciate that. Thank you so much for being on Building Unbreakable Brands. Really enjoyed the conversation. I think there was a lot to unpack here, and I think listeners are going to walk away with a lot of great tidbits, so thank you so much for sharing your insights and stories. If people want to learn more about you, your work at TrueNorth, what's the best way for them to do that?

Ruth Lund (42:18):
Sure. Jump on our website, TrueNorthCulture.com. Pretty easy to find. We have a contact button, so if you have any questions or want somebody to talk with you, reach out to us. We'd love to learn what's going on.

Meghan Lynch (42:30):
Wonderful. Thank you so much again for spending the time. Appreciate it.

Ruth Lund (42:33):
Thanks for the opportunity, Meghan. Always great to be with you.

Meghan Lynch (42:40):
Ruth had so many great insights and stories for us today. I think the two that are sticking with me is this idea of a generational company, finding ways to involve younger members of their team in decision-making. We can often be too slow to do that as leaders, and likely that's to our detriment. Plus, I love Ru's enthusiasm for peer learning. If you don't already have a peer group that you are part of, please do find one. They are invaluable, and there are groups for every size and industry and life stage of business. If you do have a peer group that you're already a part of and you find it helpful, please let us know what it is in the comments. And while you're there, don't forget to rate us and leave us a review. Thank you so much for listening to Building Unbreakable Brands.