Building Unbreakable Brands

Meghan Lynch (00:00):
When you're building an enduring brand, sometimes you need to go to the endurance experts and who better than people who run a hundred miles over the mountains. Our guest today is an endurance runner and a brand steward of one of the most famous endurance events in the us, the Western states, 100 mile endurance run. Plus Henry has some questions about how the heck someone runs a hundred miles. Anyway, all this and more is coming up on this episode of Building Unbreakable Brands.

(00:33):
Welcome to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast where we talk to business leaders with a generational mindset. I'm Megan Lynch. I'm an advisor to family businesses and founder of Six Point, a brand strategy agency that helps generational brands honor their past while evolving for the future. Today my guest is Diana Fitzpatrick. Diana is the board president of the Western States 100 Mile Endurance Run, the world's oldest 100 mile trail race. The run starts in Olympic Valley, California near the site of the 1960 Winter Olympics and ends just over a hundred miles later in Auburn, California. In the decades since it began in 1974, Western states has come to represent one of the ultimate endurance tests in the world. Welcome, Diana. Such an honor to have you on the show.

Diana Fitzpatrick (01:23):
Thank you very much for having me. I'm honored to be here.

Meghan Lynch (01:26):
I'm a trail runner and what I consider kind of like a wannabe ultra runner. I've done a few 50 Ks and a couple 50 mile races, but I've never done a hundred miler and Western states has always been one of those races that I've been just fascinated by, drawn to. I've read about it, listened to it, watched some videos about it, and I just think it's such a great example of an organization that has somehow a very strong generational aspect to it where the players have changed over the years, but the core of the race seems to have just stayed really strong over the years. And I was wondering if you could kind of start us off for folks who have never heard of Western states or maybe have heard of it but don't really know a lot about it. Could you talk a little bit about the history of the race, how it started?

Diana Fitzpatrick (02:18):
Sure, I'd be happy to, and that's a very astute observation about this event because its roots are really, it started in 1974 and as you said, it's the oldest trail run of a hundred miles in the country. So when it started, there was really nothing else like it. There was a horse race on the same trail, an endurance ride, not really a race, but an endurance ride that used the same Western states trail from like you said, Olympic Valley to Auburn. And one year one of the riders decided to try to do it running on foot instead of on his horse. He had done it a number of times on his horse and of course everybody thought, that's crazy, you can't do a hundred miles, you're going to kill yourself. He did it and he did it in under 24 hours and that's kind of where the race was born.

(03:12):
So originally it was under the same umbrella as that organization and that ride is called the Tevis Cup ride, and that is still going on today. We still share the trail and we still share stewardship of the trail with that organization. But a few years after that, Western states, the run under the leadership of four or six people formed its own nonprofit and had a separate date for the run. And that is probably in 1976 or 1977 that the run went out on its own and then has been on its own ever since that time. But those roots are still very present in some ways, like those original organizers, the original race director, one of them is still on our board, so has been a board member for almost 50 years. So our board has some of those people from those very early years. And then we also have a newer generation of board members. So like I said, that's kind of an astute observation that we are event and an organization, a nonprofit organization born of those strong roots that still are very connected and part of the present day organization

Meghan Lynch (04:39):
And the race has just grown tremendously since it was Gordy Ainsley, right, was the

Diana Fitzpatrick (04:46):
Yes, Gordy Ainsley was the original runner.

Meghan Lynch (04:48):
And so starting with one person and now you have to enter a lottery more than once to get in, it's difficult to enter what makes it so special. Why has it grown do you think?

Diana Fitzpatrick (05:07):
So over the years, I would say trail running itself became more popular that grew in those first 10 years and a few other events came on the scene. Leadville Vermont has a 100 event Wasatch, so there are a few that started in the aftermath and trail running in general became more popular. The Western States, I would say the popularity exploded in the last 10 to 15 years where the lottery system that we originally had where when I started running the race there was a three-time loser rule where if you were in the lottery for three times on your third time, you were guaranteed entry into the event. And they could do that because the numbers that was manageable with the number of people entering the lottery, that's no longer true. And now we have this past year we had, I believe it was over 8,000 people in the lottery and we are limited to 369 spots. And I'll just give a brief background on that because it's just relevant to the difficulty of getting in. But after our run had been in existence for a little while, so I think it was in the early eighties or mid-eighties, the Granite Chief Wilderness area, a federally designated wilderness area, was created along the Western States Trail in the first six miles of the trail. So six miles of our trail goes through what is now a federal wilderness area.

(06:46):
You're not allowed to have events, you wouldn't be allowed to put a new event in that, but we were allowed to continue as long as we kept our numbers at 360 9, which was the rolling average from the prior five years. So it's a little random where that number came from, but we've been stuck with it ever since. So that's the limitation on the number of entrants and what's really happened is that the number of people wanting to run the race has just grown exponentially.

Meghan Lynch (07:14):
Do you think that there's something particular about Western states that draw, I mean 8,000 people vying for 350 spots, it just seems like there's got to be, there's other races that they could go run. So why Western states?

Diana Fitzpatrick (07:32):
Western States is definitely special. There are other events you don't see that same type of demand around them, even events that have close to the same history. So I think with Western States it is the story. It has a great origin story. The trail of course, because it is a trail run and it's a point to point course, it's really beautiful. It also has some incredible challenges that are unique both in the heat, you might have snow at the start, then you can have 110 degrees. And then there's also the challenging terrain of canyons in the middle part. Overall it's pretty runnable, but it just has a lot of unique challenges in the course itself. And then it has really maintained, I would say its presence and its relevance by doing what the things that you are talking about a lot, which is that ability to balance holding onto its history but also being able to stay relevant by making sure that as an organization and as event we are aware of what's going on and changes that need to be made and to stay in front of things that are happening in the ultra running scene as opposed to reacting.

(08:56):
We're always trying to be proactive and in front of things and ultra running. There's a lot going on. There just is and now especially in this day and age with social media and everything else, and that can be a real positive, the reach of the event is so much greater, but you also need to exercise real care with everything that you do so that you aren't reacting, that you actually are staying in front of things and that I give credit to the organization, the leaders of the organization, my predecessors, we've had Craig Thornley as our race director the last 10 years. He plays a really key role in that. I would say the board is probably more involved in operations than a typical nonprofit board because of the type of organization and where we came from and how we have evolved. But Craig is really the key operation person in charge of our massive group of volunteers. Hundreds, I think the number is, I need to look it up on the website, but it's like 500 or 700 hundreds of volunteers that help put this on. And Craig is in charge of all that and he's really the one who keeps his eye on the ball of what is happening to make sure that we are aware of everything.

Meghan Lynch (10:19):
I'm curious about that when Craig or the leader or the board is looking out and sees something kind of coming down the road, sees a trend, sees something happening, how do you guys decide what is just kind of a passing thing that you just kind of go along with versus what is something that, oh, we need to change, we need to take action around this in some way? What does that look like?

Diana Fitzpatrick (10:47):
Well, I can give you an example of probably about six years ago after the lottery, we learned that we had a transgender entrant in our race for the upcoming year, our lottery's in December, in our races in June. And this person had been in the top three at Vermont 100 in the prior years. So we decided that it would be best if we thought about how we would handle a situation if she ended up in the top 10. That's how our awards are done is top 10 and it's very prestigious and there's a lot around top 10 entry. You get automatic entry the next year and there's a lot of attention around the top 10. So we wanted to make sure that basically we were prepared in the event that that did happen. So we ended up adopting a transgender policy. So the board looked at it, thought about it, and the purpose for it was both to make that entrant feel better and more welcomed to our event.

(12:02):
And it was also to make sure that the runners felt comfortable that we had looked at the issues around fairness and everything else. So I would say that was an example of instead of, and the alternative would've been to just wait and handle it either behind the scenes or on the spot or something else. But we did that and actually it ended up sort of setting a precedent for the ultra running community and running community, our policy, I mean there was a New York Times article about us adopting the policy, the other races, we welcomed people to just adopt it verbatim and a number of races did. So that was an example of us being proactive and thinking about what we wanted to do instead of being in a position of reacting on race day if something happened

Meghan Lynch (13:00):
And really start to say, if this happens, this is the policy that we want in place. That then sets you up for future runners. And it sounds like also puts you in a position in leadership in the sport to help guide other organizations, other races about ways that they can approach the same issue.

Diana Fitzpatrick (13:24):
Exactly. We're a very small race with the number of runners that we have, but we know we have a very visible presence and that other races and organizations do look to us for things like that. So we're very aware of everything that we do that it's both precedent setting and in the spotlight and will be scrutinized and so we have that in mind when we do things. So we exercise a lot of care. We don't just randomly do anything. We are very careful and thoughtful I would say about everything we do.

Meghan Lynch (14:03):
Yeah, that sounds like a lot to hold for a volunteer board in terms of knowing that you have that kind of leadership stance that you're also kind of holding the history, that you're holding the future at the same time. Do you guys have conversations about that piece of it, of what that means for those in the room making some of those decisions?

Diana Fitzpatrick (14:31):
Yeah, actually we adopted a new mission about two years ago I think, and that was a really good exercise for the board to be able to talk about, talk through all of those things about what's important, what's important going forward and as an organization and what our role as board is versus the operations. Like I said, I would say that has evolved and it's become less operations when this started. I have a feeling, I mean I wasn't around at the time, but I have a feeling the board basically put on the race and did a lot of the operations. So it's been a change and we now really try to focus more on things that a typical board will focus on, finances, policies, sort of the bigger picture things. Our mission is basically to put on a world-class event. We do medical research in the ultra running community and we're also stewards for the trail stewards for the 100 mile Western States course.

(15:32):
So now we try to focus on those three things at a higher level and let our race, Craig Thornley, our race director, who's really more like now an executive director of a nonprofit focus on running the organization. But in doing that, one of the things that we adopted that's in our mission itself is that to embrace innovation while honoring tradition and we added those words and it came up, it was really something that struck a chord for everybody on the board in different ways with that tension between wanting to honor tradition but not let it hold you back, that you also have to embrace innovation and not be scared of change or you'll be left behind. And I think that's the tension there and that we have a board that is a very healthy mix of both people who have been on for, like I said, close to I think four have been for more than 30 years, have served on the board. So they have seen everything from the beginning. There's sort of a middle group, including myself, and then we have five board members that started since I took over as president, so since 2020.

(16:59):
And I think it's a very healthy balance. Those new board members have been the ones leading the charge on things like our live broadcast, which has really brought us forward and has maintained our presence and relevance and visibility, which we would not have without that. But it's also really helped to have those new board members who are familiar in that world, which even our middle and certainly the other groups are not. So that balance is important and everybody has a role and a place.

Meghan Lynch (17:40):
I love that it really sounds like you guys have, as opposed to seeing that tension as a negative thing, it sounds like you've really embraced it as something that you almost want that tension between past and future and that actually has become a source of innovation and strength in the organization.

Diana Fitzpatrick (18:03):
Yeah, I think it's important to be aware of it and where that you don't want, you're just aware with everything that you don't just hold on to something because it's how you've always done it, that it's really important to also consider what's important. I mean as a board president and a lawyer as well, I think my guiding principle with it is always what's in the best interest of the organization that really should be the driver of any decision. So if it means letting go of something because really in order to move forward you have to let go of something that might be near and dear to someone's heart, what really serves the organization best.

Meghan Lynch (18:51):
You're listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. I'm here with Diana Fitzpatrick, board president of the Western States Endurance run. Diana is also a running coach, race director and endurance runner herself. She's run the Hundred-Mile Western States race five times, and in 2018 at 60 years old, she made race history when she became the oldest female in western states history to break 24 hours and earn a coveted silver belt buckle. Diana, knowing that you are not just on the board, but you've been a runner, you've towed the line, you've run those miles, you've really kind of been a part of the race in a lot of different ways. I'm curious how you would describe the culture of Western States.

Diana Fitzpatrick (19:39):
I think the culture of Western states is to try to, the culture of Western states I would say is being involved, doing work, getting your hands dirty and stuff and to really understand the organization. And to me it's time on the trail meeting people, meeting the running community. So whether that's runners, the volunteers who man aid stations for year or decades. We have families that have been out at the aid stations for decades. We have a group of managers who help Craig put on the race. So especially since being president, I've really tried to make a point of getting to know those different people. I think that's really what the organization and the race is about is really that community of people, a lot of whom have been there since the start and may not even be runners but just love Western States. That culture of getting out there helping and what is really at the core is watching other people, the entrance every year, get to experience what we call the life-changing experience of running a 100-mile race.

(20:56):
And even as a volunteer, whether you're delivering ice to an aid station or doing the parking at one of the shuttles drops or you're at the aid station handing out m and ms or whatever you're doing, you're part of that journey. You see it up close and personal. And because it is only 369 racers and because it is so often that same group that's out year after year at, we have 20 different aid stations and each age station takes pride in being the best. So it's really a special culture and community at its core. So to me that's the biggest treat. In fact, this coming weekend is our three days training runs where you can sign up and run from mile 20 to the finish in three different days. So entrance people who are going to be running the race this year come, but also a lot of other people come just to be able to get out on the trail, get shuttles aid stations. So I'm going to be working an aid station with Craig Thornley's wife, Lori Thornley does it every year, my husband and a few other people on Saturday. And on Monday we're going to be doing Dusty Corners and ALT on Monday and then I'm going to run on Sunday, so then I get to meet some of the runners as well. But that's what it's about. It's a small community of people and it's a community of people who really care.

Meghan Lynch (22:22):
Are there traditions that happen every year? Anything that is sacred, just you could always expect it at Western states that helps to keep that culture strong or do you see changes every year?

Diana Fitzpatrick (22:40):
There's definitely traditions and every runner, the race starts at Olympic Valley, so in the days leading up to the race, a lot of people go a few days early and there are things going on at Olympic Valley and including you have to do an in-person registration. So you meet people, I do registration, so I meet every single person who's running and then there's on the morning of the race at 4:30 AM or something in the dark and they pick up their bib that day. So we know that they're there that morning to take off and there's a pre-race briefing and as part of the pre-race briefing, we introduce the top 10 men and women from the prior year who are returning and some of the elite athletes and maybe the oldest athlete or a few people get up. So there are definitely traditions like that. Some of those are changing, that's part of that tradition versus innovation. So yeah, so runners tend to come a few days early to be able to soak in what's happening.

(23:54):
And that includes, there is a pre-race briefing, we introduced the top 10 every year from the prior year who are returning and some of the other elites or we might introduce the oldest athletes who are running or other notable entrants come up and just get to be on the stage. Everyone gets to see them and it's just again, another good opportunity for people. It is a small community and it just is an opportunity for people to interact and get to see people and recognize them. And in many cases it's like, oh, I've heard of that person and now I can attach a face to a name, Emily Hogan, Katie Azimuth, so a lot of these names and then people are just walking around the village and that's kind of cool. Another thing that actually is new but is that with the live stream, the broadcast we have in the village set up a stage and Dylan Bowman and Corinne Malcolm, who are the two people who do our broadcast race day, also interview some of the top athletes, other human interest stories of people who are running and they do it right in the village so people walking by can just sit down, grab a chair, listen, it's also being broadcast and people can hear it from anywhere.

(25:23):
So that's kind of a new thing, but it's like the modern version of what we used to do, which is just spend time in the village getting to know people and getting to people to feel that they are part of a pretty small community, pretty cool thing to be doing. Not only that they're running this race, but that they have all of these people around who are either running the race with them and they meet them or supporting them. And like I said, I work registration and I meet people at registration and then I try to get around to a couple different spots on the race and then I do our anti-doping at the end and go to the award ceremony at the end. So you really do end up meeting people again and again, which is part of what makes it special.

Meghan Lynch (26:14):
Yeah. One of the things that I love about maybe ultra running in general, but I feel like Western States in particular is that in a lot of races people make a big deal out of the people who win like that top 10 and at Western states that is a big deal, but I feel like one of the other traditions at Western States is this Golden Hour tradition of not the people at the front but the people at the end. Can you talk a little bit about what that means to the culture? Why is that a special time for the race?

Diana Fitzpatrick (26:53):
Yeah, I think that's sort of the spirit of ultra running and 100 miles is that really anyone who gets to the starting line of an ultra thinking that they can get to the finish line and most of them do and our cutoffs are generous. We want people to finish. So really the story of a hundred mile race is getting to the finish and everyone's journey is epic and amazing and it doesn't matter really if you're in first or if you're in last place. And in fact we call it the golden hour, which is the last hour. Our cutoff for finishing the race is 30 hours and there are cutoffs at all the aid stations. There are 20 aid stations. If you don't make it to a certain aid station by the cutoff time you're pulled from the race. And that's really because I mean aid stations have to close down and be realistic, but it's also because the race has a cutoff of 30 hours.

(27:46):
So you don't want someone getting there past that cutoff. It happens occasionally, but the idea is to try to get everybody to be able to get to the finish by 30 hours. We call it the Golden Hour, and that's that last hour that finishers, they finish at a track in Auburn Placer high school track in Auburn. And I would say the biggest crowd and the biggest excitement is that last hour and the most tears because it is dramatic to see what people and to know what they've gone through. It's kind of that, well, one of our board members just wrote a book called The Second Sunrise. They've gone through two sunrises to get there. So their journey really is really inspirational and part of, so it's honoring both that it's really just about finishing and we do try to now and we have this opportunity with our live broadcast to really honor the stories, the human interest stories of people who go and it's not always just the elite athletes.

(28:56):
We have a visually impaired runner this year and there's an article on him in our program and we have a number of indigenous runners and we adopted a land acknowledgement this past year and have been working with the local indigenous groups, the Washau out of Olympic Valley. And then the rest of our trail goes through lands that belong to the Nisenan who are based in Nevada City. So we've connected with those groups and so we try to share stories like that about our trail and about the different people who have connections to the trail and then runners in the race who have had unusual different journeys of getting there, but that are always inspirational and good learning opportunities for everybody.

Meghan Lynch (29:52):
I think that that point of the people that, I mean essentially it's an organization, it's a race where the players change every year and it is made up of individuals and most of our listeners have companies where they can be working with the same people year in and year out, day in and day out to really build a strong culture. But you've got a couple of days once a year with a constantly changing cast. How do you keep a strong sense of identity with all of that flux and change?

Diana Fitzpatrick (30:36):
In the case of Western States, I would say that comes from the framework of the race, which starts with the board of directors Craig Thornley, our race director for 10 years. Like I mentioned, the aid station volunteers, some of these families have been there literally for 40 years. We have somebody retiring this year who's been doing it for that long. So that cast of characters doesn't change like the runners. So the runners come and go and what's being delivered by this, under this framework of people who are there for them. And it's hundreds of people doing it. And I mean this has now become a year-round job to put on this event, but what's being delivered to this changing cast of characters is this life-changing experience.

(31:31):
And you see it and you get to experience through them that journey and you meet them enough because it is a small group and it starts, I mean it really starts even with the people who are present at the lottery in December and are there in person and scream and yell and cry and go running up. And there's a lot of the board of directors there and Craig is there doing it. And so it's the same team that is around all the time and you really do develop and form connections with that group of runners. But the main thing is that underpinning the organization, the volunteers, the aid stations, the trail work that's done, it's the same community and it's also incredible how many of that group of people are people who were touched by Western States at one point in their life and maybe ran at once and come back year after year to give back.

(32:28):
Having had that experience. I mean, that's true in my case, that's true in so many board members. And Craig is on his, he's just run it for the ninth time, the race. So a lot of it is people who have experienced that life-changing experience and are really happy to give back and to make sure that every year with that changing cast of characters, that they get that experience that meant so much to all of us. And you don't have that at every race where you have races. I know the difference that feel of a race where the eight stations are more pop up and they get you your fluids and they get you your energy bars or whatever you need, but you don't have the same sense of that permanence and history that somehow does come through. For the runner experience that this race has been around for this year is our 51st running of the race

Meghan Lynch (33:31):
And in the entire history of the race. So over that 50 years, it's only been canceled twice. Correct. Once in 2008 with wildfires and then in 2020 with, and you were board president during the Covid Or you on the board?

Diana Fitzpatrick (33:50):
I had just taken over as board president. That was the first thing I got to do was cancel, celebrate,

Meghan Lynch (33:58):
Hey, how hard of a call was it to do that?

Diana Fitzpatrick (34:01):
It was very hard, but again, it was one of those things where we did feel like we were in that leadership role and position. I mean we were day in and day out watching, deciding, and we decided to do it on, it was late March 26th. I think we made the announcement on the 27th. I know because that's my birthday. And I remember being up all night writing the announcement for the website and it was a hard decision. And again, that was where I think it was really a collaborative decision and we were having I think daily calls with a team on the board to evaluate what was going on. And Craig Thornley our leader of the organization, he is a real can do guy. So I think his initial focus was like, we can do this. We can make this happen. And then as this, because he had done it actually as a race director at Waldo, it was super impressive.

(35:07):
He was a race director for a 100K there and there were fires and there was all this stuff they had to work around and they did, and they were able to pull off and put the event on safely and it was great and the runners appreciated and everything else. So I think initially that was the mindset of this, we can make this happen. And then there was just this growing realization that really the more responsible thing was to think about Western states is important to us, but there was something way more important going on in the world and we had to understand and respect that and take the pressure off people who are coming from around the world and stuck in little apartments in Italy, we have runners from everywhere and we were getting the reports about the limitations and we were starting to have the shelter in place. All of that was going on.

(36:01):
So we finally, we did make that call pretty early, really given the timing, but it just felt like the right time. In fact, when we made the call, we weren't even sure if by June it would be over covid. And then we thought, okay, well if that's the case and it really is over, then we have to think that maybe we helped get California and get the world there by not just plowing ahead with our event. So it was a tough call, but it was one that a team of us were on top of every day for a while.

Meghan Lynch (36:37):
I love that mindset and reframe of if it's done, then we did our part and we can feel good about that, that there's a way to come out of it and not be second guessing those tough calls, which I know is you always do no matter what. I'm curious if there's anything that you think would end Western States that would stop it from happening and just not continue. Is there any way that you see that happening?

Diana Fitzpatrick (37:09):
I don't see that happening with the current leadership and with the history of the event. I think everybody feels like there's too much on the line to keep this going. It's just been here for too long. It means too much to too many people. Last year we had a fire, the mosquito fire in California, which was one of the bigger fires, burned tens of thousands of acres, 16 acres of our trail was burnt in late fall November, and there was no easy workaround, like a detour or anything that we could have done to be able to put on the event last year. We needed the trail and it was all hands on deck, like really heroic efforts on the part of a, our Craig Thornley, John Katz, our trail manager, a whole team of people who just did everything in their power to work with the Forest Service government agencies to get that trail open and to make sure that we, and that would just be a cancellation, not even saying that the event was over, but to make sure that the race was able to happen. That was last year. So just having seen what, and it was also an epic snow year in the Sierra, so we had those two unbelievable once in a lifetime kind of challenges in one year and we're still able to manage to put on the race and have a great event. So just seeing what went into making that happen last year, I have seen up close and personal the determination and work and effort that people are willing to put in to make it happen. So I don't see that happening.

Meghan Lynch (39:08):
You're listening to Building Unbreakable Brands, the podcast all about brand stewardship and crafting an enduring legacy. My guest is Diana Fitzpatrick, attorney runner and board president of the Western States 100. Before we wrap up, Diana, we are going to turn the mic over to the next generation. This is a podcast about generational leadership. So my son, Henry, who's eight, has a couple of questions that he wants to ask you. So take it away, Henry.

Henry Lynch (39:38):
Hi Diana. I have a few questions for you today. One of my questions is how do you get ready to run a hundred miles?

Diana Fitzpatrick (39:48):
Well, Henry, that is a great question and it does seem like something that is unimaginable maybe to when you're just starting out and haven't run more than five, 10, even a marathon. It might seem unimaginable, but it's funny. You just take it in little pieces and little steps and before you know it, you are ready to toe the line. And the first thing I would say is to talk to other people who have run one hundreds and get some advice on it. But it is something that is really very doable by all sorts of people.

Henry Lynch (40:33):
Another one of my questions is, what is the weirdest thing that happened to you at the Western States?

Diana Fitzpatrick (40:39):
Wow. The weirdest thing that happened to me. Let's see. There are a lot of surprising things that happen on the trail, and one of my biggest pieces of advice for people when they are starting out on their race is to just let go of any expectations, because things happen that you think you're prepared for everything. So you think of all the worst things, blisters and whatever it is. So you prepare for all of those and then something happens out of the blue. But I think one of the weirder things that happened to me was actually on a training run, and I think I was so tired. I was starting to get delirious, so all these tree stumps that were black, black and I must've been in a burnt out area, I kept thinking they were bears and then I'd realize, oh no. And then I thought maybe there were garbage cans. So in my mind I was cycling through the same thing. It's like, is that a bear? Is that a garbage can? And then I'm like, Nope, that's a tree. And you're just really tired. But that can happen on races. You get basically delirious and start seeing things.

Henry Lynch (42:00):
Thanks, Diana. I also have a joke for you. Why was the runner put in prison for resisting arrest?

Diana Fitzpatrick (42:11):
Very good, Henry. Well, thank you. Great questions, great joke, and thank you. Yes,

Meghan Lynch (42:18):
Ultra runners everywhere are always resisting the rests.

Diana Fitzpatrick (42:23):
That's a good one.

Meghan Lynch (42:25):
Diana, thank you so much for being a guest with us here on Building Unbreakable Brands and thank you for everything that you and the entire Western States family are doing to keep this tradition alive. I think it's, as you described, all the kind of heroic efforts that go into it. All of the people and hours that go into it for really just helping other people accomplish their goals. It's a pretty remarkable thing. So thank you so much for talking to us about it.

Diana Fitzpatrick (42:55):
Thanks Megan. It was great to be here. I appreciate the time. Alright,

Meghan Lynch (42:59):
Thank you. I think the Western States 100 is such a wonderful example of how brands can endure when they let people feel a part of something that's much bigger than themselves. While I tend to think about the inspiration and history behind Western States, I also did hear Diana talking a lot about the importance of structure, policy and frameworks when you're trying to keep a culture strong and balance that tricky tension between past and future. While most of our listeners will never run a hundred miles, I think that there were a lot of applicable lessons from the Western State story. Thank you so much for listening to Building Unbreakable Brands. If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to share it with a friend and don't forget to rate us and leave us a review.